From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #232 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Wed, 16 May 2001 Vol 08 : Num 232 In this issue: eskrima: Re: hitting & assault charges eskrima: rip off, schmip off eskrima: What charge? eskrima: Ron Balicki seminar in Chicago eskrima: DBMA class date change eskrima: Modern Arnis and Professor Presas eskrima: Re:NY courts case eskrima: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dieter_Kn=FCttel_RE:_Remy_Pressas_question=3F?= eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1300 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000), Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jesse Greenawalt" Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 17:26:46 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re: hitting & assault charges > From: Neal Konecky > > The defendant was charged with third degree assault, a misdemeanor. The reason for this > is that the courts have held that punching someone one time is not an intent to cause > serious physical harm. Since there was no intent to cause serious harm, manslaughter was > not deemed to be an appropriate charge. > > There is one major exception carved out for martial artists. It is the same exception > used for ordinary people who use a weapon. And that's where it gets stupid, IMO. A 150 lb. skinny MA hitting that 230 lb assailant would be charged MORE harshly than the bruiser hitting an old man? Ridiculous, if it ever occured that way. Just goes to show - you can't legislate brains or sense... jester ------------------------------ From: AnimalMac@aol.com Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 18:20:44 EDT Subject: eskrima: rip off, schmip off << by the way (IMHO) every body rips off every body,.... that is why in so many arts for so many years techniques were secret. That way you had an edge in a fight and the other side did not know what techniques you were going to use. >> let me postulate another idea as to why things kinda look alike. The truth of the matter is a shark is a shark. If you have a lot of people trying to describe one, after a while you will notice that all the descriptions kinda sound the same. That is because people are describing something that is real and that exists outside of themselves. These issues have been around ever since Thongor the Learning Impared picked up a rock and bashed another neanderthal over the head. And a whole lot of people have been trying to figure out the answers to it ever since. Guess, what, if you do your research you will find many of these ideas appear and reappear thoughout history. Amazingly enough though things can develop on their own along parallel lines. The bow and arrow, the wheel, fire...they all kind of showed up around the same time. Not because anybody ripped anybody else off, but because there was a need that that particular answer addressed. That's what happens when you have a lot of people working on the same problem all over. Nobody has invented anything when it comes to fighting - at least not for the last 5,000 years. What you have is rediscoveries or refinements of previously existing ideas. Face it a tactical nuke is a big improvement over a catapult, but it is still based on the same principle, deliver lots of aggravation to your opponent home defenses from far away so you don't get hurt yourself. Now if both of those aren't refinements on a cro magnin throwing a rock at a neanderthal I don't understand fighting. What you get is evolution and improvements on warfare which allows us to be more effective. It's no wonder things were lost. Face it, bladework in the West went really out of vogue once effective guns were invented. Does that mean that the Western world didn't understand blade work? Noooo....they quit using them once guns got far more effective. And now that we aren't all wandering around with our six shooters strapped to our sides again, interest in hand to hand fighting and *ta da* knife fighting is coming back. The history of arms in the Western world is an amazing procession of invention, counter, counter invention, counter to that counter invention etc, etc, until you often find yourself right back with the exact kind of weapon you had in the first place. It's kind of a rock paper sissors thing. To make this whole mess even more complicated, until recently, you had a generational problem. That is to say about as far back as the average person could reach on advice on fighting experience was three generations back, i.e. ask grandpappy what he did to stay alive. Thing was what grandpappy had to face might be different than what is coming down the pikeway this time around and the problem was compounded with each new generation. No wonder things were lost. As times, circumstances change so does fighting. But sooner or later things tend to resurface. I mean how many of you guys have read George Silver? Some of his stuff I swear he is talking about the current state of the martial arts in America. What all of this rambling amounts to is simple: To say somebody invented something in this biz and then that someone else "stole it from the supergenius who created it" is pretty much a smoke and mirrors dodge. Number one it implies that this "inventor" is smarter than millions of people who for thousands of years were in the business of warfare. Number two it ignores history Imean sheeeeeit....Tiberius of Rome did some pretty good reality based training: His drills are bloodless battles and his battles are bloody drills". Number three, you can't copyright an idea, you can only copyright exactly how you say it. Number four, if there was a legitimate grounds for this how come nobody's lawyers have been set loose? Number five, if number four is the proof of the pudding, then what is someone trying to accomplished by someone crying that he was ripped off or that he holds the "true" art? Basically it is turn people against those he is decrying. And I can only point out that someone who tries to turn you against someone else is doing it for selfish reasons. ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 15:29:07 -0700 Subject: eskrima: What charge? A Howl etc: Neil wrote: > An interesting case came up in the NY courts. As it was reported on the radio, there > was a dispute that occured in a parking garage. In relevant part, the defendant, > approximately 6'3", 230lbs., punched an old man in the face. The old man fell and hit > his head causing fatal injuries. > > The defendant was charged with third degree assault, a misdemeanor. The reason for this > is that the courts have held that punching someone one time is not an intent to cause > serious physical harm. Since there was no intent to cause serious harm, manslaughter was > not deemed to be an appropriate charge. > Interesting; I'm not familiar with NY law, but was under the impression that manslaughter was usually defined as murder without intent to kill- roughly. > There is one major exception carved out for martial artists. It is the same exception > used for ordinary people who use a weapon. Is this what the radio report said, or is it your addition? Crafty ------------------------------ From: RBalicki@aol.com Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 20:32:06 EDT Subject: eskrima: Ron Balicki seminar in Chicago Hi Everyone, I will be in Chicago for a seminar at the Degerberg Academy of Martial Arts on the 18th, 19, & 20th of May. I will be teaching: Kali (Inosanto / Lameco methods) Jun Fan JKD Shoot Wrestling Maphilindo Silat Degerberg Academy Phone # is (773) 728-5300 Thanks and see you there Ron Balicki ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 18:13:37 -0700 Subject: eskrima: DBMA class date change A Howl of Greeting to All: The starting date for the class in Dog Brothers Martial Arts at the Inosanto Academy has been moved to Saturday June 16th. For unavoidable scheduling reasons, a shoot for a major TV network could not be scheduled at any other time, I will be in Spain for my annual seminar there as well as a video shoot in Spanish, and blah blah blah. So rather than begin the class only to have it interrupted immediately thereafter, we will be beginning on 6/16/01 at 1:00. Hope to see you there. Guro Crafty ------------------------------ From: "Jay de Leon" Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 18:58:55 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Modern Arnis and Professor Presas Regarding those 3 statements about Modern Arnis and Professor Presas purported to be from a Doce Pares Germany practitioner, they are so full of sweeping generalities and obvious errors, I would not even dignify them with a rebuttal. While I am no apologist for Modern Arnis or Professor Presas, I feel that Professor Presas and Modern Arnis in particular and FMA in general deserve more respect than such seemingly uninformed, flippant remarks (whoever the source may be). Jay de Leon ------------------------------ From: Cplr50@aol.com Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 00:00:14 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re:NY courts case Neal, As a NY court employee, I would love to know more about this case...do you have anyinformation regarding it.. Docket #, County of Occurance.. the justice name.. Was a plea taken, or did it go to trial?.. Just wondering Steve Stone ------------------------------ From: "Roland Isla" Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 21:16:25 -0400 Subject: eskrima: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dieter_Kn=FCttel_RE:_Remy_Pressas_question=3F?= To Dieter Knuttel and anyone else interested, With regard to Uwe Schwarz' comment "Remy Presas learned Eskrima as a teenager from Arnolfo Mongcal who taught him for 6 months. Mongcal was the only Escrima teacher of Remy Presas. Mr. Presas combined his limited knowledge about Eskrima with japanese martial arts to create a sport oriented system he called Modern Arnis." While I'm certainly not qualified to answer this question, I do have one question myself to you or anyone else in this mailing group. Where exactly does Remy's older brother Ernesto fit into the picture? Sincerely, Roland Isla ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 7:39:31 PDT Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #232 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.