From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #267 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Wed, 13 June 2001 Vol 08 : Num 267 In this issue: eskrima: Dog Brothers Martial Arts at the Inosanto Academy eskrima: I know what I wrote, no malice.. eskrima: Datu???Tim Hurt-man eskrima: Rocky Blow it, and he blow it hard. eskrima: Mucho Dinero..To watch.. eskrima: Pekiti Tersia Arnis eskrima: Repost re: Westbrook's Post eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #266 eskrima: schools in Atlanta eskrima: Pekiti in NYC? eskrima: Pekiti Tirsia in NYC eskrima: Re: Renegade Datu eskrima: Ron Balicki eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1300 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000), Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marc Denny" Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 18:40:59 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Dog Brothers Martial Arts at the Inosanto Academy A Howl of Greeting to All: If I may get in a howl amidst all this barking? This coming Saturday (i.e. June 16th) at 1:00 at the Inosanto Academy the class in Dog Brothers Martial Arts will begin. I wish to strongly emphasize that this class is for ALL, young and old, fighters and practitioners. For directions, questions about directions, questions about cost etc. call the Inosanto Academy at 310-348-9944. I do know that one can train in the class without paying the regular initiation fee for the Inosanto Academy, but it is best that you get the precise information from them. See you there, Guro Crafty ------------------------------ From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 21:53:32 EDT Subject: eskrima: I know what I wrote, no malice.. Hello I am back after being stock in Venezuela for a while after 18 hours delay on my fluight going back to US, I just open my e-mail, I guess I have to answer one at that time. Okay, Meghan, you are rights, but I dont know where you going to, on this comments, you what me to stay cool, while Rocky is getting away to his words. Dont get me wrong seems like you are on to stir my mind, and my word I say, I said what I said and I meant it, its no offense to you nor to anyone only to Rocky, since he is trying hard to turn the situation around, and used a malice word on me.. Okay I accepted that I used those words, not to lower my personality, who am I? Nobody, he is the one who start this mess. He is the one who over step our bounderies, when someone had a problem to someone, they should talk about it, not to throw an insulting malice words. I dont know really, I guess you are too is being part of it, I dont know your intention, like I said I took you firs comment on heart as constractive critiszm. I will live him alone since he is nothing but words.. If you have a problem with my words, well is to bad, my friends, that the way I want to diliver it to him, and the readers. Not to insult you or anyone from the Digest, the words is really for Paksiw only.. Salamat na lamang, Thanks anyway, Gumagalang parin, With respect even though, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet << It comes off as playing into his posturing. I think Rocky was blowing a lot of hot air and you probably decided he overstepped his boundaries. But instead of just leaving it at an invite for a friendly fight, you wanted him to back up his "challenge". Difference of opinion, I suppose... I would have been more impressed if you left the very well worded invite to stand on its own instead of following it up with requests for him to accept it or tell you he doesn't want trouble with you. In my mind, it would have placed you far above the posturing. Meghan Gardner Director Guard Up, I >> ------------------------------ From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 22:09:26 EDT Subject: eskrima: Datu???Tim Hurt-man Tim Hartman, Before you try to stir something that you dont know, go back ang read again, what I wrote before you answer and ACT oaky? First of all, I never said it that Rocky Challenge Taboada, I said one of GM Bobby Taboada student e-mail and told me before even I become a member of ED that he said (ROCKY) name all the ligitimate Balintawak direct from Anciong Bacon and Bobby is not on the list. It was abig mess he said and Rocky asked for help to Proffessor Pressas and other Balintawak GM to settele the mess the he made with their help. I just dont confirm this is it true, that all I mentioned. So next time, before you would throw something that you think will help you to stir the topic, think, and analysed like fighting my friends, not attack, all the time, you should thinks defense all the time, then counters. Again, Datu?? Do walk in front of I may not follow, Dont walk behind i may not lead, but walk beside me and be my friends. Balimbing Ka Tim Hartman.. You are man of many faces Tim Hartman, Gumagalang/respect, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Laguna Arnis FEderation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research Center USA DAtu?? Tim wrote: << 1. Guro Abon mentioned that there was another challenge made to GM Taboada by Rocky and afterward Rocky backed out, this is incorrect. It was because of an article that was written about Taboada, at the end of it there was a by line about a Ted Buot who teaches his own version of Balintawak. This is not the case, the only man who was allowed to teach at Anciong's club and eventually inherited the art was GM Ted Buot! Rocky was talking to the writer of the article telling him that it was in fact Taboada who taught his own version of the art and not the real deal. This lead into a letter to Rocky that GM Buot read and told him that it was a challenge! After some discussion between the two parties the topic was dropped. >> ------------------------------ From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 22:20:15 EDT Subject: eskrima: Rocky Blow it, and he blow it hard. Thanks Ray Terry for keeping the true tone of the Rocky's intentions, He blow it an apportunity of a life time, sorry I wont answer anymore question in regards of the Rock Challenge, we will settle this in private e-mail from nowon, to those of you on his side e-mail me directly, I heard enough from others said, this is boring to them. Sorry to those bored by this mess.. no more... lets go back to your normall Escrima/Arnis Topics.. Gumagalang Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research Center USA This is how it started... The Rock rote: "Remy says I fight like Ted and Ted says I fight like Remy I take them both as compliments. And a good way to find out if Remy knows what he is doing is to play, train, or fight with me, I am always available..." To which Guro Baet said, essentially,,, Ok, sounds like fun. Ray "Gasoline-man" Terry >> ------------------------------ From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 22:33:34 EDT Subject: eskrima: Mucho Dinero..To watch.. Jay De Leon, You are rights, this might not occur here in the US, or may be possible, nice to know you are willing to pay a lot of money to watch me fights, I will keep that in mind. I will be going home, in July of 2002 for Laguna Arnis Tournament, and Summer Camp. I will face those Masters that talking big of themselves back home, when I an not around. I did went home the last time, and those masters dont want to fight me anymore, but this time, I will organized the Battle of the Champion 2002.. I will try to persuade them to fight against to all Cahmpion of Laguna, Batanngas, Queson and Rizal Provinces, other town is welcome as long as thy are ligitimate Cahmpion of Arnis Eskrima Tournaments under stablished organizationm, not self proclaimend Champion, there's a lot of them here in the US and PI so I will be checking records before you can enter the Tourney.. Again, everyone is welcome to join us at 2002, Garimot Summer Camp in the PI. Gumagalang ng Lubos/with all respect, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno FEderation Hilot Research Center USA << (1) challenges - Like most of you, I would have paid mucho dinero to watch a true arnis challenge match between two skilled worthy protagonists (Gat Puno Abon vs. ?) By my definition, necessary elements to such a challenge mat >> ------------------------------ From: "Stephen Lamade" Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 02:43:58 Subject: eskrima: Pekiti Tersia Arnis Re. Pekiti Terisa: Agapito Gonzales and Virgilio de Carvalho teach Pekiti Tersia at the World Yoga Center, 265 West 72nd Street, New York, N.Y. (Tues. and Sat.)and Nyack, N.Y. Both were students of Leo Gaje and Tom Bisio. For more information: 718-443-4689 For more information about other Pekiti Tersia teachers in the NYC area, go to http://www.cecm.sfu.ca/~loki/Kali/guros.html. Regards, Stephen Lamade San Miguel Eskrima _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: BillyJa695@aol.com Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 23:13:01 EDT Subject: eskrima: Repost re: Westbrook's Post Whoops, accidentally hit the send button. Read on. >>wnyima@hotmail.com, has written the following: >>Subject: eskrima: Datu speaks about challenge > >>Greetings, >>I would like to make some comments about the ROCK and this challenge. I >>feel that I can talk about it because I know Rocky, I do Modern Arnis and >>Balintawak. > >Why are you joining this thread at this late date? It is winding >down and all of the principals have ceased posting! You really are >not adding anything new to the discussion. Well, if you were to read the beginning of Tim's post, you would see that he said that he had just come back from a seminar tour in Europe.....which is why he joined the discussion so late. You may want to take care to read a little more carefully next time. >I see the word "challenge" in your version of this matter. It >would appear that gist of what Gat Puno Baet reported has merit >and the "challege" was defused (dropped) in some manner. Maybe >you should discuss this with all of the parties involved before posting >just one side of the matter! I would have to concede that, when I read Rocky's post, he was indeed making an open challenge. That's the way the post came across. Perhaps it was his way of yanking several people's chains. Perhaps Rocky meant it one way and it came out another way. In any case, it read like an actual challenge. >>3. I don't know how this started becuase I was teaching in europe and I did >>not get all my mail while I was there. If you made an open challenge >>Rocky, then it's your fault. If Guro Abon was reading too much into the >>post then maybe it's not Rocky's fault. No matter what is said not it is >>not going to change anyones opinoin, so can we now drop the whole thing >>and talk about something else or is this digest that boring? > >Boy, oh boy, you are really good at suggesting what the ED subscribers >should be discussing and posting. Actually, I feel that you are mixing >aples and snowballs! You really wanted us to know where you >have holding seminars. You also used your posts to take some shots at the >new IMAF leadership, Jeff Delaney, Randi Schea, and the rest >of the new 'masters of tapi-tapi': Okay, explain to this all of us on the Digest....where in the preceding paragraph did Tim mix his Europe tour with his views of the IMAF ? I don't see anything there. >>Some of the people who attended were Modern Arnis people who attended some >>of the IMAF events recently. I asked if my name came up and I was told yes. >>I was informed that no one said anything bad about my ability. This makes >>sense seeing that the Tapi-Tapi Masters are my juniors in rank, years, and >>ability. > >Quite honestly, Mr. Hartman, I can concede that you have a point that is >worth considering. After all you were the highest ranked person >in the IMAF and you held that desirable title, yet these other people were >promoted to elevated positions above you. In my opinion, you >have just issued a very thinly veiled challenge to ALL of those people, >considering that they were your "...juniors in rank, years and ability." I think that Tim was making a factual statement. I don't see an implied challenge whatsoever. You are reading something into what's not there. > >BTW are any of those folks subscribers to this forum? I'm not aware of this but would like to know. >Now for the other matter. Once again, you have issued a challenge to >the new IMAF leadership in general and Jeff Delaney in particular! In reading over Tim's post, I think that he was challenging Jeff's fitness to be where he is now. That is far different from issuing a challenge to Jeff. Those are two different things. > Are >you going to stand up and honor that challenge if it is accepted? In my opinion, you are seeing things that are not there. An more explicit statement is needed from Tim before I'm satisfied that there's a so called challenge. As it stands now, Tim has called into question Jeff's place in Modern Arnis by saying that he has not produced any black belts on his own and indicating how many black belts that Tim himself has instructed over the years. So, this is not a "challenge" of the kind that Rocky issued. Tim was saying something else entirely different. >As I see the challege, you and Delaney, should each take the floor at >a seminar and demonstrate your relative abilities to teach the art. >You got "stroked" from behind by the IMAF leadership and now you have called >them out, to face you. The real question is will they respond and accept >your challege? Looks like you're trying to dictate the terms of something that is entirely fictional. Stephen King would be mighty proud of you. Take care, Brian Johns Columbus, Ohio ------------------------------ From: "Michael Milazzo" Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 22:58:13 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #266 To all who questioned the professor's health -- the most recent update that I have (6/10) is that he is in an assisted living facility. In addition, his condition is not what Mr. Delaney would have you think it is. Datu Hartman knows much more about the professor's, as I'm sure he will tell us. As for the web site -- Jeff Delaney is in charge of it. Take everything on it with a grain of salt. It is obviously to Jeff Delaney's advantage to have you believe that the professor is on a road to recovery, but it saddens me to inform you otherwise. Mr. Westbrook, My response was an effort to explain the flaw in your logic. The Professor simply can't use this sort of forum. Due to previously stated health problems, he is limited in anything he does -- when he did attempt to travel, it is to my understanding that he developed pneumonia because of it. My response was "huffy" because of the defending of Jeff Delaney. What I tried to state before, there is no comparison between Datu Hartman and Jeff Delaney -- the former is qualified whereas the latter is not. I attended the Michigan summer camp of 2000, where Mr. Delaney did a great deal of teaching. Let me tell you, being taught by him was hardly the highlight of my FMA career. On the other hand, I've had experiences with Datu Hartman which have pushed me to the next level in my ability and understanding of FMAs. So, with all that said, was it the fact that I pointed out that Datu Hartman has trained 19 black belts under the Professor versus Delaney's none, my statements of confidence in Datu Hartman's abilities, or the exclaimer under my name that I am a WMAA Member that led you to believe that I am a Delaney supporter? In closing I would like to state, as I and others have before, that you need to see what you are criticizing! You blindly critique the Datu without ever seeing the man, meeting him, or understand his abilities. Attend a semenar, after which you will undoubtedly understand where I and the rest of the Datu's supporters are coming from. Michael Milazzo WMAA Member _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "jon sales" Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 22:40:35 -0500 Subject: eskrima: schools in Atlanta My sister is in Atlanta, GA and is interested in arnis and stuff. Any suggestions for schools in the Atalnta area? Jon ------------------------------ From: "BILL MCGRATH" Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 02:22:06 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Pekiti in NYC? George Wang asked: "Hi, I'm looking for a school that teaches traditional Pekiti Tersia in New York City. Thank you." Visit the PTI web site at: http://www.pekiti-tirsia.com/index.html You will find school listings on both the "Links" page and the "Schools and Clubs" page. Regards, Tuhon Bill McGrath ------------------------------ From: "James M. Seetoo" Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 03:36:15 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Pekiti Tirsia in NYC Re. PT in NYC Are you referring to the older style PT based on 64 attacks? Regards, James Seetoo Instructor San Miguel Eskrima ------------------------------ From: abanico-video-knuettel@t-online.de (Dieter =?iso-8859-1?Q?Kn=FCttel?=) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:08:13 +0200 Subject: eskrima: Re: Renegade Datu Hi, just a few comments to the "Renegade Datu" thread: > Actually, I think that Mr. Hartman, has a legitimate set of concerns and a valid complaint about > the shabby treatment that he got from the new management in the IMAF. snip > As I stated, I think that Mr. Hartman, did the correct and honorable thing in passing on the > offer of a leadership role during the onset of GM Presas' hopitalization and subsequent medical > difficulties. He is to be commended for that action. snip > As I read his statements posted yesterday, he has in effect challenged them in terms of their > years of study in Modern Arnis, knowledge of the art, rank and teaching skills level. He was > senior to all of them and he wants them and us (ED readership) all to know how he feels. I can't > say that I disagree with him on that score. He was 'stroked' in his absence. I have not seen or > heard anything yet that rebutts his contentions. First of all, this is not a comment on Tim Hartman or Jeff Delaneys abilities or qualities as a teacher or Modern Arnis player. I know them both personally, when they accompanied Professor Presas when he taught here in Germany, but by far not good enough to give a jugement in that regard. Secondly, just for you to read this post right, I was asked by Dr. Randi Shea, the other successor of the Professor, when he was here in Germany about 4 years ago, if I had the aim of beeing the successor of the Professor and I clearly said no. I have my roots here in Germany (I have "produced" at least about 40 - 50 black belts and I have students that produced already 10 black belts) and the IMAF is mainly spread in the US the successor must be from there. This was never a topic for me, eventhough I felt honored to be asked. Anyway, to the "Renegade Datu" now: I donīt really understand Timīs problems. He said, and I am sure it is true if he writes it, that he was asked to be the number one of the IMAF by the Professor. He turned it down. This might have been an honorable step in the regard, that he did not want to take advantage of the difficult health situation of the Professor, and he has to be respexcted for that, but it really depends on the point of view. If I try to see it from the Professors view, he had an diagnosis, that he had a brain tumor and he did not know if he would survive it. This made it neccessray for him to point out a new leader of the IMAF if the worst case happened, that he would not survive the operation. So in this situation he asked Tim as one of his Datus and the highest american Modern Arnis player. And Tim turned him down. (The second time btw, once when he asked him if he wants to be the 5th Datu bout a year ago, if I recall right) This must have been quite a disappointment for the Professor! So what did Tim expect? That the Professor says: if Tim does not want to do it, I want nobody else? The Professor needed a successor, he asked one, he was turned down, so he asked the next one. ( Of course I donīt know what the Professor thought, it is just a scenario I could imagine) If Tim had his reasons to turn the Professor down, it is his decisison and he has to be respected for that, but in my opinion he should not complain now, that somebody else was chosen then. Also I donīt know why Tim was "shabby treated from the new management of the IMAF", but perhaps I donīt know some facts. Anyway, I donīt know the internals of the IMAF too good, but I think the leader that the Professor had to choose must have been a person, thet knows his system well and that is known all over the US by the IMAF members. There are many high ranked Modern Arnis players in the IMAF that are only known in their region. When I read through the seminars, the first names that come in my mind are Tim Hartman, Jeff Delaney and Chuck Gauss. Tim said no, then Jeff. As what I know, Jeff has visited all summer and winter camps (3 and 4 day camps) of the Professor in the last 5 years which adds up to 40 to 50 of these camps, in addition to the normal one day seminars. So he has traveled and is kown and knows the system of the Professor well. I donīt know who is the better man but this is not the point, since one said no to this job. Just to make it clear once more: this is not bashing on Tim nor is it defending Jeff Delaney or comparing these both. I am sure, booth have their qualities. I just wanted to give this discussion another point of view. Datu Dieter Knüttel ABANICO Video Productions http://www.abanico.de European Modern Arnis Representative http://modern-arnis.de ------------------------------ From: AWSolis@aol.com Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:56:54 EDT Subject: eskrima: Ron Balicki Woof! When I first read this attack on Ron's character, my first thought was :"This guy has not talked to Ron." If he had, I know that he would be alot calmer. I am sure that Ron doesn't even care who won or lost...his purpose is to provide a venue to showcase FMA in a safe environment. He wants everyone there to have enjoyed themselves, and possibly make a new friend or two. Ron Balicki has been a great teacher and friend to me. Ron picked me up emotionally when I considered walking away from martial arts due to an unscrupulous JKD instructor who at the last minute charged me a total of $1200 more for a seminar and testing (I was already an instructor of this other instructor). It almost closed down my school. Needless to say, I no longer represent this other instructor. Ron gave me his time and his friendship, and made me realize that there is more to martial arts than just chasing fame or money. Ron has come and done seminars at my school interested only in keeping our skill level up. That is very rare these days. He made me aware of the impact that I have on my students. Ron is very honest, and will probably flare up a bit when he reads your words, but that is his honest feeling...there is nothing two faced about Ron. He is going to want to kick your butt and then decide your not worth it. I know that is how I feel whenever someone attacks my friend. I know alot of people, there are only a few that I call...friend. Ron is one of those few. Woof! Alvis W. Solis Solis Martial Arts Academy ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 7:40:01 PDT Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #267 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.