From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #270 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Thur, 14 June 2001 Vol 08 : Num 270 In this issue: eskrima: Some thoughts on several posts eskrima: Footwork offering eskrima: RE: there is more than the fight eskrima: That's saying something! eskrima: Re: Attacking Ron Balicki eskrima: FW: --My 2 Cents-- Re: eskrima: Some thoughts on several posts eskrima: --Bantay Kamay-- eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1300 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000), Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ernest Westbrook" Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 14:06:33 -0000 Subject: eskrima: Some thoughts on several posts AnimalMac@aol.com, posted the following remarks: >Subject: eskrima: too much talk >From Marc Animal MacYoung > >I'm studying Serak silat with Steve Plinck. And about a year ago he >said >something that really hit the nail on the head: Your only >calling card is >you skill. Can you fight? That is a very hard statement to escape from. When the rubber has to hit Reality Road, because someone is in your face with maliced intent, it is your knowledge and skill that will determine your fate in most situations. >I agree. It's not about style, lineage, titles or who has the true >art. >The bottomline is when it comes to it "when it gets to thrown >down time, >will you be the one left standing?" Animal, that just abpout says it all. >Then old Peyton Quinn threw his two cents in while we were sitting >around >his dinner table drinking beer: "The only true indicator of a >teacher is >the quality of his students." No arguement from me on that statement! >I'm in the middle of writing my memoirs right now, and looking back, >I >realized that the street that I grew up on had so many fights that >it must >have been considered a real dangerous place to go. The reason >I never >realized this before was that I was in about 90% of them. I >didn't get >into the MA to become a fighter...I was a fighter already, >I got into them >to become a BETTER fighter. As I have grown older >(although the wiser >part is questionable) I have realized that there >are really only two >reasons to study the martial arts. Fighting and >self-improvement. Perception and enlightenment are powerful things. We gain both through life experiences. Martial arts training should teach us how to be better fighters in all areas of our lives not just in the street encounters or tournements. (Deleted paragraphs on fighting and self improvement---------) >Unfortunately between these two extremes is a very deep chasm that >many >people fall into. Although it is filled with pride, it has >neither of the >redeeming qualities of the other two. And although >you tell yourself that >you have mastered both, neither of the two >extremes will ever be proved. >You neither prove your fighting skills >by stepping up to the line, and the >only "improvement" is self- >imposed superiority over others because you hold a rank, know >something >special, know the "true" art, are a "warrior" because you >study/know >something or because you teach people this awesome and >deadly art. Very well put, Animal, but you are preaching to the already converted. >That chasm of self-delusion is real deep folks. And what is worse is >it is >very self-reinforcing. Because all the "Tests" you come up with >are of >your own devising and by your own standards. Within your small >circle >these tests and standards look real impressive, but do they >hold water >outside that? I think not. It's made even worse when you >are surrounded by >students who are playing the same game and telling >you how great you are. >And who will in turn leave and argue with >"true beleivers" from other >cults as to why you are better than their >teacher. I would say thay you have read Eric Hoffer's, "True Believer" and you have applied the concepts to the martial arts and the politics of the martial arts. If you have not read this little book from the 1950's, you have applied the concepts, correctly and concisely, none the less. Well done. >It is easy to see when people have fallen into the chasm because they talk >real big, but the proof of the pudding is lacking in either >direction. >There will always be a reason for them not to go there. And yet they demand >to be respected as if it were. And their students take up the same arguements without thinking about that the implications really are and what the consequences could be if there is a need to put the rubber down on Reality Road! >And they argue heatedly over unprovable >concepts...unprovable >because >nobody wants to step up to the plate. This allows them to >maintain their >position in the chasm, telling themselves that they are right and never >risking being proved wrong. So you do know a "challenge" when you hear it, read it or see it in terms of body language, unlike some of our fellow members of this digest. Animal, you must have grown up in a big city with no illusions. >Bottomline here kiddies...it's deeds not words...and what have you >done >that can prove to others you can either fight or are a better >person for >your time in the arts? - --------------------------- guard.up@verizon.net, responded as follows: >Subject: eskrima: insults > >Gat Puno wrote: > ><<the way I want to diliver it to him, and the readers. Not to ><or anyone from the Digest, the words is really for >< >No problem with you words... I was simply expressing what I thought >would >have been the "higher road". Personally, no one outside of a >very few >people have the ability to insult or offend me. I need to >give someone >this ability. And those who have the ability are not >the types to use it. > >I'm certain you don't mean disrespect and none is taken. Perhaps one day >we'll meet and have a good face to face talk without this >text-only >barrier. Very well stated, Megan. A difference of opinion or approach is to be expected from time to time, but why let that interfer with the potential to develop an friendship or engage in a face to face dialogue? >------------------------------ raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com, asked: >Subject: Re: eskrima: too much talk > >>I'm in the middle of writing my memoirs right now, and looking back, >>... > >Good Lord! Just how old are you? :) That is an exercise for one >who >has many years of life and experience under their belt. One >hardly begins >to learn about themselves and the world around them >until they hit 60 or >so. Many years of life and experience is really quite subjective. As a street fighter, living to be 35, can be a long time, given that a significant number of your friends are in jail, dead or seriously mained for life before they reached 25 years old. With some good luck, a fortunate meeting with a older, wiser person who becomes your mentor, it is possible for a few people to escape the worse aspects of an earlier life; therefore a memorir can be quite relevent for a 35 - 40 year old person, like Animal or others whom I can think of at this moment. Personally I am very interested in reading Animal's memorirs when they are published. His experiences, as published in some previous books, parallel some of mine own, but there are also significant differences, which makes me want to read more and compare. Respectfully to All quote above, EBrook _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 07:24:01 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Footwork offering A Howl etc: Eric asked: "- --Good afternoon everyone-- challenges seem to be coming out of the woodwork.....wouldn't you agree..? I just thought I would ask if anyone could give me some training tips on FOOTWORK (not yelling) though the info. would be greatly appreciated. I am very active in Muay Thai for many years now (as in competition) Eskrima works well with it, as far as angles...! Once again any footwork info will aide my training. Good bye from Houston, TX. & Much respect to everyone S a l a m a t for you time, ~Eric "E-Man" Campbell" Yes, like a wave of dogs barking in the night, challenges do seem to be in the air :-) Your question on Footwork touches on a favorite topic of mine. If I may be permitted a self-interested reply, I would offer two possibilities for your consideration: 1) Tape 2 of the first Dog Brothers series: Footwork featuring Eric "Top Dog" Knaus. Eric's footwork (Pekiti Tirsia) is stellar. It is rare to see a big man move this well. 2) Tape 3 of the Dog Brothers Martial Arts series: Combining Stick and Footwork featuring yours truly. The tape featuring Eric is almost exclusively solo training, whereas the tape featuring me has a lot of two man training as well as solo. Both are available through our website: www.dogbrothers.com on the catalog page. Woof, Marc "Crafty Dog" Denny ------------------------------ From: AnimalMac@aol.com Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:53:53 EDT Subject: eskrima: RE: there is more than the fight From Marc MacYoung Loki said: << The words are also of value. But it depends on who is saying them and to what effect. And like so many things of value, words are often abused and lose credibility. >> You forgot a few of the most commonly overlooked issues regarding the establishing of the value of words...and ones I personally consider to be the most important... They fall under the unbrella of "Why is the person saying this?" What is he getting out of it? What is his bias/agenda? What is he expecting you to do/beleive? What ISN'T he telling you? You'll find asking these questions to be a real fascinating excercise while watching the news. And you'll see how lopsided the reporting really is. But on a much more personal level you can live-fire test this idea out by when someone comes running up to you and tells you something inflammatory. Then instead of getting upset, do nothing. Just look at them and say "gee that's too bad" and watch their reaction. If they keep on pushing, then you know there's an agenda there, because they want something and you doing nothing isn't gelling with that goal. and then comes the real killer... Does this person walk his talk? Does someone decry something being done to them and then turn around and do it to others. Here's a real fun one that just happened to me the other day, does that person do/say/act one way in your presence and then professionally badmouth you at his seminars? (not a smart thing to do when the guy being told this was a student that I had encouraged to go out learn what other people have to say on the matter). Or does the person use sturm und drang speeches to stir up the pot and then quietly slip away? Does the person use the words to weasel out of or complicate the issue? Do they try to change definitions of words to escape admitting misconduct on their or their parties behalf? Are rhetorical, "what if" questions asked to lead you away from uncomfortable points and issues? You asked by what accounting sheet does the bottomline of "Can you fight?" matter The answer is words lose their value when our actions aren't consistent with what we are saying. And while our own personal version of an accounting system might allow for these convienent inconsistencies and "fudging", that sort of thing doesn't fly with any widely recognized and accepted accounting system. ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:52:11 -0700 Subject: eskrima: That's saying something! A Howl etc: Ron wrote: > Subject: eskrima: Ron Balicki Labon Laro > > Rick, > > I had to write in from Italy because I am still in shock over this matter. I do not think I have ever been attacked like this before. Considering that this is coming from a former Chicago cop who has been shot and can regale with tales of wading through prison riots with a baton, that's saying something! Yip! Crafty Dog ------------------------------ From: HENSHIN@aol.com Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 13:27:20 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Attacking Ron Balicki In a message dated 6/13/01 1:33:09 PM US Mountain Standard Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << I don't practice escrima yet, but would like to someday. Hopefully by that time, the tournaments are no longer biased. >> So you don't practice this art yet you are able to determine how it should be correctly judged? How is that possible? I know nothing about the sport of Cricket for example. How could I ever decide if one team got screwed? If I don't know the rules what gives me the background to comment? Further, many losers in a tournament or sporting event have to come up with a reason why to all their friends and family. After I lost in the finals at the 1997Rickson Gracie tournament and took home the silver, it was very tempting to tell my wife how I got screwed on points. Instead I sucked it up and said simply that the other guy won on advantage 2-2. Also, I myself lost in a knife fighting tournament that was based on the honesty of the participants. My opponent lied big time. I smiled, shook his hand, and walked away to enjoy the rest of the tournament. That's life. Maybe your friends weren't big enough men to act the same? Or perhaps you thought this would be a fun opportunity to stir up trouble from the safety of your keyboard? Either way, perhaps next time you should heed Mark Twain "Better to keep quiet and let everyone think you are stupid, rather than open your mouth and remove all doubt" Cecil Burch ------------------------------ From: ECampbell@HHSI.COM Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:44:31 -0500 Subject: eskrima: FW: --My 2 Cents-- > -----Original Message----- > From: HHSTM - Campbell, Eric > Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 12:43 PM > To: 'eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.com' > Subject: --My 2 Cents-- > > --No problem, R.Balicki, evedently this guys has no knowledge of what you > are all about, nor what you stand for.....this definitely shows his > ignorance.. in addition, I want to thank you again for your response. > To everyone, keep Eskrima (Escrima) Kali/Arnis and whatever you may > believe in Alive and Well ! From Houston, Tx. Peace and Love....... > Salamat > > E r i c " E~M a n " C a m p b e l l > M u a y - T h a i > "I d e a s A r e T h e B e g i n n i n g O f A l l A c h i e v e m e > n t" > ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:00:40 PDT Subject: Re: eskrima: Some thoughts on several posts > Many years of life and experience is really quite subjective. As > a street fighter, living to be 35, can be a long time, given that > a significant number of your friends are in jail, dead or seriously > mained for life before they reached 25 years old. ... at 82 (in August) Cacoy Canete has fairly recently been involved with documenting his life and career, several of the important parts didn't even occur until he was 60+, e.g. several of his challenge matches. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: ECampbell@HHSI.COM Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 15:25:35 -0500 Subject: eskrima: --Bantay Kamay-- - --With ease-- Is the checking hand (alive hand) in blocking..let's say a #2 strike used for basically stopping the attack completely against the oppenents hand and or wrist, with full force? Also in other blocking methods, of course with the use of the yantok as well? I practice alone, that's why I ask E r i c " E~M a n " C a m p b e l l M u a y - T h a i "I d e a s A r e T h e B e g i n n i n g O f A l l A c h i e v e m e n t" ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 15:20:09 PDT Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #270 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.