From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #272 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Fri, 15 June 2001 Vol 08 : Num 272 In this issue: eskrima: Time has no meaning Re: eskrima: Time has no meaning eskrima: Willow System eskrima: Renegade Speaks Again eskrima: Re: Mike and Ray Mentzer eskrima: The Mentzers eskrima: Tapi Tapi ? eskrima: Mike and Ray Mentzer eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1300 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000), Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marc Denny" Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 07:58:09 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Time has no meaning A Howl etc: Ray wrote: > 1) For those who missed the previous announcement, this Saturday at the > Inosanto Academy at 1:00PM begins the class in Dog Brothers Martial Arts. Yo Crafty, You first announced this last July. What took so long? Ray Terry I thought it was around September I announced it, but regardless I was hoping to slip by on that one ;-). What happened was that the time slot that was supposed to be opening up didn't do so and now a different one has. Woof, Crafty ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 8:43:24 PDT Subject: Re: eskrima: Time has no meaning > Ray wrote: > > 1) For those who missed the previous announcement, this Saturday at the > > Inosanto Academy at 1:00PM begins the class in Dog Brothers Martial Arts. > Yo Crafty, > You first announced this last July. What took so long? > Ray Terry > > I thought it was around September I announced it, but regardless I was > hoping to slip by on that one ;-). What happened was that the time slot > that was supposed to be opening up didn't do so and now a different one has. No problem, of course. Just glad it worked out... Ray "The Timeless One" Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: kalkiusa@netscape.net Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 11:45:43 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Willow System Anyone here familiar with Manuel Taningco's Willow System of FMA? Mr. Taningco has Tian Shan Pai background like myself and also trained with Grand Tuhon Gaje (he says "Hello" to Tuhon McGrath). I'm curious about Mr. Taningco's FMA system ... seminar in Dayton, Ohio in the first week of July. Thinking of trekking to TenNESSee for Tuhon McGrath's pakal-pakal seminar. Ach! Decisions! Mitakeyu Oyasin. Be well, Mik __________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ------------------------------ From: "tim hartman" Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 15:51:21 Subject: eskrima: Renegade Speaks Again Greetings all, I would like to thank everyone who has mailed me privately showing their support. The response has been overwhelming! I feel that I must clarify my position on my last statement and a couple of issues. It is evident that at least one member of the digest is looking deeper into my statement than needed. 1. Prof. Presas' health. Mr. Milazzo is obviously very passionate about what he writes. Prof had a grade 4 brain tumor, which was larger than his own fists. The one time he left Canada, he caught pneumonia and ended up in the hospital. At the moment he is in an assisted care ward. This makes it hard to do anything. He continues to have seizures periodically. Due to his condition, he will not be attending any seminars with the exception of events that may take place where he is living. 2. Prof. Presas' knowledge of what is going on. Prof. only knows what he has been told! The information has been censored since his illness. There is no need to get him upset over things that won't help his health. Being cut off, sheltered or hidden, the result is all the same. He does not know about many things that are happening at this time. 3. My intent When I left the IMAF, it was to promote the art my own way. I did not want to deal with the bureaucracy that started forming with the new regime. I started a group that was truly interested in improving their ability and knowledge. I wanted to co-exist with the IMAF, not compete with them. I do not question who is in charge of the IMAF. When I left, I forfeited all claims to any position of authority in that group. Does this mean I'm not the leading person who is active in the art of Modern Arnis today? No! The post was a reminder that they should watch what they say. It was I who was challenged by their comments. 4.Why did I send this to so many people. People have a tendency of changing stories, so instead of risking that I sent it to as many Modern Arnis people as I could. Since I don't have everyone's address the digest is a good forum to get the word out. 5. The Challenge. Only one person has accused me of challenging the MOTTs (Masters of Tapi Tapi). My actions were in defense. The only challenge was not to fight, but for everyone to keep their mouths shut and have no mud slinging. As the saying goes " People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones". I refuse to let people take shots at me without provocation. I do not know which members of the group started this last assault, but more than one person was reported saying it. Like I said in my first post - you kick a lying dog enough times and it's going to bite you! For those MOTTs who didn't call me a RENEGADE, if you witnessed this and did nothing then you are just as guilty. For those who had no knowledge of this then I'm sorry. If a challenge was made by anyone, I feel that it would have been made by Ernest! He seems to really enjoy twisting my words, and those of anyone who sides with me. I wonder if he really exists or is that his pen name. He has mentioned that he pays a lot of attention to the IMAF page, but he says that he does not do the art. Even Ray Terry wants to know what the problem is! He seems to challenge the majority of the things I put on the digest. If this is your intent, then I accept! Talk, drink, bang sticks what ever. 6. Conclusion In conclusion, I would like to say that I feel that Modern Arnis has a long rough road ahead of it. We can waste out time bickering among each other or accept each others' differences and continue on with our training. At my seminars, I end each one talking about the different organizations. I tell the participants that each organization has its own strengths and weaknesses. You must look for them on your own, and then decide which organization would suit you, if any. The most important of all, is to pay our respect to Grandmaster Presas, by ensuring that his art will continue. Datu Timothy J. Hartman "The Renegade" wmarmis@wmarnis.con www.wamrnis.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: ABurrese@aol.com Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 12:17:09 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Mike and Ray Mentzer >>WHHHHAAAATT????? The Mentzers dead????? Please, >>more info... >> >>Kim Satterfield I've always liked the Mentzers as well, even though I disagree with some of the HIT principles. Definitely a loss to the bodybuilding and fitness world. Here is a bit of information from bodybuilding.com. Yours in Training, Alain Burrese Copied from bodybuilding.com: A sad day for bodybuilding... Mike and Ray Mentzer DEAD Monday morning, June 11, 2001, an e-mail was sent to me saying that Mike Mentzer has passed away June 9th. Ray, his brother, who is also suffering from illnesses, found him. We do not know what happened. All we know is that a great person in the bodybuilding world has left us. This was confirmed by Jim Manion, president of the NPC. All the information that we know is that apparently Mike died of either a heart attack or some type of heart complications. That's all we know for now. More news to follow... Reeling from the loss of Mike Mentzer only a day earlier, Ray Mentzer, brother of Mike Mentzer, was found dead on June 12th, only one day after himself finding his brother dead. Rumors spread like wildfire, and it was thought that Ray committed suicide being distraught over the death of his older brother Mike. Both brothers lived in Redondo Beach, and they shared an apartment together. Both brothers had a history of health problems, including heart problems. Mike was 49, Ray was 47. (Avidan) ------------------------------ From: AWSolis@aol.com Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 12:17:17 EDT Subject: eskrima: The Mentzers Woof! From ironmanmagazine.com: Sad News: Mike Mentzer, 1951-2001 On Monday, June 11, the physique world was rocked by the news that Mike Mentzer was dead. The 49-year-old former bodybuilding sensation and developer of the Heavy Duty system of progressive-resistance training was reportedly found by his brother Ray in the Redondo Beach, California, apartment they shared, early Sunday morning. He had apparently died in his sleep. Details are sketchy as this report goes live, but the presumed cause of death is heart attack, as Mentzer had experienced serious heart problems in recent years. Mentzer’s writings on Heavy Duty training, a program of brief, infrequent high-intensity workouts based on the theories of Nautilus developer Arthur Jones, have appeared regularly in IRONMAN for most of the past decade. Late-Breaking News: Ray Mentzer Survives Brother by Two Days Ray Mentzer, younger brother of Heavy Duty guru Mike Mentzer and a noted physique star in his own right, was found dead in his Redondo Beach, California, apartment on Tuesday morning, June 12, just two days after Ray found Mike's body. Ray, who suffered from a number of physical ailments, including kidney disease, missed a dialysis appointment on Tuesday, which alerted friends that something might be wrong. He was 47. Details are even sketchier on this story, so keep checking the Hot News for more info on the Mentzers’ deaths as it develops. Woof! Alvis W. Solis ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 9:52:19 PDT Subject: eskrima: Tapi Tapi ? Perhaps someone can explain Tapi Tapi (a variation of Modern Arnis?) to someone like me that isn't in the Modern Arnis camp? The Rock or The Renegade or The Deiter :) or ??? Thanks. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: T2J2M2@cs.com Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 15:52:53 EDT Subject: eskrima: Mike and Ray Mentzer Apparently, Mike Mentzer died of some form of heart aliment, and his brother Ray died of complications of kidney disease. Ray skipped his last dialysis, and that killed him. It is my understanding that skipping one dialysis session should not kill you, my guess that there was something else wrong with Ray. I learned that about dialysis from several nurses who work with kidney patients. Tim Moskal ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:28:25 PDT Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #272 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.