From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #285 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Sat, 23 June 2001 Vol 08 : Num 285 In this issue: eskrima: Yaw-Yan and MMA eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #284 eskrima: FMA Empty hand effectiveness?? eskrima: War vs. hierarchial arts eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #284 eskrima: Speaking of NHB... eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1300 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000), Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RobRPM2222@aol.com Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 22:01:16 EDT Subject: eskrima: Yaw-Yan and MMA In a message dated 6/22/01 9:41:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << The Yaw Yan group says that they do groundfighting now and are anxious to try it out in NHB and MMA competition. So, we'll see. >> That's very interesting. It would sound like Shooto Class C and B competition would be a natural first step, as Shooto is one of the few MMA orgs to have weight classes in the average Filipino fighter's weight range. Also, if current rumors are true about the K-1 kickboxing organization setting up multiple weight classes instead of only having open weight competitions, you may see more Filipinos involved with kickboxing, as K-1 pays very well ( though not near as much as some top boxers make. ) ------------------------------ From: RobRPM2222@aol.com Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 22:07:08 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #284 In a message dated 6/22/01 9:41:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << So I am aware that with this little project of mine to create a kali-silat NHB fighter that I am playing with a handicap (war techniques eliminated by the rules of a hierarchical context) but I have an idea or three that I fantasize may have some merit :-) And if the results with this one individual do not turn out well, well its just one individual and the search for truth continues. >> Sounds interesting, Crafty. As far as I know, there has been only one silat guy to enter MMA competition in the U.S., Brazil, Japan, or Russia ( big 4 ), and no mainly FMA guys to enter it. ------------------------------ From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 23:46:41 EDT Subject: eskrima: FMA Empty hand effectiveness?? Luis Pellicer and Roland Isla, You guys did a good job to anwer and give an idea for Filipino empty hand effectiveness question. My point of view: Well, let see what we have, we have the Sikaran Groups that fouded by Meliton Geronimo, Kuntaw with Carlito Lanada and others and I know all of his follower are doing well in Tournament circuit in the Philippines, especially a Tae Kwon Do type Tournaments, Kick Boxing and straight Karate Point Tournaments. That show FMA effectiveness there, don't you think. My answer to his question, about eh effectiveness of FMA. I would say yes, FMA is effective Martial Arts empty handed or using a variety of weapon. FMA is geared for Combat for life and death situation like the other martial arts. Sometimes, or Most FMA teachers dont teach the empty hand right away until they feel you are worth it. FMA are designed to deal for multiple opponents, deal with weapons attacker, etc. FMA martial arts can stand alone in any arena of martial arts , if we understand the true philosophy of the arts, we will never question, it's been proven, from generation to genereation. We have Buno or Lumad for Grappling as old of the our first Aborigines, We have Sikaran, Kuntao, Silat, Mano-mano, Sikadtukan, and Panuntukan, for empty hand, kick and punch type of fighting. You can check out some video out there that has documented materials of FMA, like Lucay-lucay, Guro Dan Inosanto, Steve Groody, Vee-Kuntao Arnis, etc. This is just a sample of the documented materials of FMA empty hand effectiveness. In regards of the FMA joining tournaments right here in the US, I've seen some of the student join and won many tournaments, Its is very hard only to alter techniques of FMA for sport Tournaments, becaused we used to the dirty stuff not clean cut straight linear attacks, that the other martial arts is used to. I guarantee you we can out play any Karate, Tae Kwondo, Judo, Jujitsu, to their preffered game, if they let us used our techniques, no rules type of thing. I remember my instructors told me fighting is cheating to win, if you cant cheat, and out think your opponents you are the one going down. Even in the Filipino war, look back to Filipino Military are the first one in the world to promote Guerilla Ambushed attack, back in 1800's, General Emilio Aguinaldo and his leading Generals promote Ambush strategy, older than MAO CHE TUNG strategy (1940's Chinese Guerilla Warfare). They attack while while there sleeping, eating. I encourage anyone to seek an instructor in FMA knowledgeable to traslates all of the Stick or weapon work to the empty hand techniques. Then you would appreciate more the FMA effectiveness in both world. just my two cent for now. Gumagalang/with Respect, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno FEderation Hilot Research Center USA ------------------------------ From: "q" Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 22:20:59 -0700 Subject: eskrima: War vs. hierarchial arts Crafty wrote: << Much/most of modern western martial arts is about young males competing. Young males are intensely interested in matters of hierarchy (breeding prospects being closely related). >> Very interesting points. I would say western arts have degenerated from war arts to competition in current form as the only way to preserve what little is left of combative arts. This happens because people need to work at jobs to feed themselves and the payoff for winning a competition is little more than temporary bragging rites that usually do no help in ones ability to aquire food. Young males tend to compete because 1) they can 2) someone else is often feeding them (they live at home) 3) they have not aquired the baggage of life yet where they are feeding others. Those still competing years later are few and special. <> What do you think makes this so? Do you think that the reason is similar to FMA being blade oriented is closer to "gunshot is to death" vs "armbar is to broken arm" and the breakee can still hit you back? I think that FMA can degenerate into a Hierarchical form in that you can change rules to limit finality of a contest. You have proven that at Gatherings. There are very few one shot "end of contest" due to the rattan stick and limited headgear. I would guess that there would be more first contact "end of matches" with hardwood sticks and no gear. But then you would have no young males left unhurt and you would have no more competition. The same goes for silat. Lets say you take out the bukti negara entrys of crash and bash and use say a very kind vertical gunting entry followed with puters kinjits etc. You would then have a kinder gentler silat that could be fit for competition. Remember the 70's when Guro Dan/Bustillio would increase sparring at the harbor city academy and the attendance would drop? What concepts do you think you have to keep in the training method of arts in general to sway the balance toward hierarchical or warlike? <> And for war you need?....awareness, mental toughness, application of skills, anticipation, vision, luck What do you think about that? Regards, Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S. Redondo Beach, Ca. ------------------------------ From: Jivita@aol.com Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 01:19:34 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #284 <> And the Filipino Martial Arts as taught by Dan Inosanto is just a collection of techniques and training methods taught by different people. One thing you can do is write down your favorite techniques from your instructors and use a picture of yourself as the cover and stick it on ebay for a $100 reserve. One thing the book does is provide access to articles from sources not largely available such as Rapid Journal. I've read 6 of the 21 article so far and have thought that 3 were worth while. I partically enjoyed the Amberger article on Eskrima and the Rapier. The book so far has crushed the Silat to Kali mother art theory as well as the "my eskrima comes from Lapu Lapu" claims. I'm currently reading an instersting article on Jose Rizal (who of course is the "national hero" of the Philippines- I've always hated that phrase. Ask a Pilipino (my relatives included) who Jose Rizal is and the answer is always "the national hero of the Philippines".) Sorry I digress. My understanding is that the book is a collection of essays, not all of which have been previously published. I say this because some of the articles have a footnote stating that they have been published before and some do not. Regardless, the 18 bucks the book costs if far less then one would pay to buy the back issues of the various magazines. Especially if one were to buy Journal of Asian Martial Arts at $10 bucks a pop. Regards. Jim. ------------------------------ From: "Pentjakker" Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 11:02:09 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Speaking of NHB... If your in the New England area, Mass Destruction 2 Vale Tudo is tonight :) Check www.nagafighter.com for more details. Regards, Travis P.s. There a nice mpeg of a fighter doing an aerial somersault to bypass the open guard "invitation". ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 8:45:45 PDT Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #285 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.