From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #288 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Tues, 26 June 2001 Vol 08 : Num 288 In this issue: eskrima: Filipino help each other, multiplying enemy. eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #286 eskrima: follow ups eskrima: Jose Rizal, the national hero of the Philippines eskrima: the caddis guy eskrima: Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 22:25:55 -0700 eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1300 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000), Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 14:27:27 EDT Subject: eskrima: Filipino help each other, multiplying enemy. Luis Pellicer, Thanks for changing the words cheating, I try to find the closest word Ican describe the term "Dayaan" meaning sneaky.. Thanks you are there.. << Agreed, though I'd like to change the word "cheating" to something else. Makes all of us filipino stylists on the list seem sneaky. Maybe we can think of something that doesn't sound too JKDish. I also support the claimed that, if you fight one Filipino, you are not only fighting one, you get ready, to his friends, naighbors, brothers, parents, sometimes you have to fight to whole community. Like the snake that only seen tin the Philippines calle "Ahas Kuyog" meaning if you see one dont kill it later you will see hundreds of them, they have of tendency of retaliates. This make me remember on March of 1987, in Cozumel Mexico, when I was working as a Chef in MS Holiday, Carnival Cruise Lines. Five of us Filipino went to the Bar place, about 7 miles away from the ship, at the same time, we found about ather 25 more Filipino that work in other Ship. We just say Hi! Pare to each others the find a table and sit. A group of Mixican Navy walk in its about 45 - 55 of them, the whole bar is pack. One of the Mexican approach one of the Filipino table and start giving them a hard time, also telling the Filipino to leave, and also telling them, no body touch Mexican woman in the Bar or else, someting bad will happen to them. We are about 4 table away from the Filipino groups, so we look around, and one Filipino said "Patayan na mga Pare ko" meaning Killing time all of my comrads in Tagalog words. So we stand up two Filipino grasp a steak knife and starts stabbing, slashing all of Mexican in his way, its just automatic that all of us has to fight against the Mexican at that nights, after few minutes, four Mexican are dead on the Bar, and no Filipino are down so one of them said, "Pare Takbo na"!!! May Patay na!! meaning Comrads Retreat!!Theres dead already!!! So all of us run outside and taook the Taxi and run to the Ship, an hour later, here we go the Mexican Police, Navy Officers are in the ship negotiating to our Captain, to give us to them, to take us to Jail.. The Captain refused to give us to the Mexican Police, this caused the Ship to be delay of departure from Mexico. Because we are inside already of the Panamanian Flag ship, we are protected by the Maritime Laws. Again to cut the story short, we Filipino dont know each other, all we know we are Filipino, and we fought for each otehr againdst 45-55 Mexican Navy. That show we Filipino stick to each other in case like this. Sometimes I still think few more incedents that I been experience for Three years working as a Crew in the ship. We dont need to justify who are worng or right, we just based the fact that there are Filipino and we are Filipino and they need my help, so we help them no second taught. That the Filipino Attitude, like when someone attack your instructors, even their not attacking you is your responsibility to defend you Teacher, no matter what the case may be you are there to help him out in any way even you know you are weak you just want o show him your sincerity and didication.. Okay Pare salamt uli, Okay friends thanks again, Gat Puno Abon "GArimot" Baet Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimw Buno Federation Hilot Research Center USA ------------------------------ From: Eagle556@aol.com Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 21:12:32 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #286 <<>> Numerous schools, mainly backyard schools, promoted heavy sparring during the 70's. This was a tradition that continues today in many schools. Take care, Rob ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 21:39:31 -0700 Subject: eskrima: follow ups A Howl etc: Chris wrote: > In regards to FMA hand to hand effectiveness. This account is by no means an attempt to brag but merely is an account of a real life > encounter I had in Feb of 1999. I will never forget it. , , , > The bottom line to this tale is that My instructor starts most of his classes with stickwork drills, then breaks down what these drills do > without the sticks, then switches to maybe as staff,blade, Most classes end with hand to hand work relating to the same stick technique. I >have done this with him for over 6 years. I am not even near the skill level of his top students, am one of the oldest. (55 yrs old. I learn slower >than the my classmates but I practice consistantly. FMA teaches flow in a way that is most effective, the drills sharpen your reflexes and turn >a lot of your fighting skills into reflex. Yes, we do a lot of light sparring and work on using the angling, trapping and locking techniques into >our normal striking lines. I personsally feel that FMA, here in the USA works differently that in the Phillipines. We do not carry sticks or >staffs or machetes around in the open and we have been inbred (hollywood) to think that only the bad guy has the knife. Thus although > ! > training with these weapons is VERY important in developing your personal attributes, the hand to hand FMA arts are effective enough for >this student. Also, we are not out in the country, in the dirt and the jungle. We live in a concrete world. everything is hard, so those are >enviromental weapons as well that are alway with us and the trapping, locking skills that we learn from many of the FMA masters awwow us >to take our opponent to the concrete, over the chair, into the car fender as well. > > Chris Very Nice Post from Chris. Your teacher should be proud. What is his name? > ------------------------------ Luis Pellicer wrote: > > So I am aware that with this little project of mine to create a > >kali-silat NHB fighter that I am playing with a handicap (war techniques > >eliminated by the rules of a hierarchical context) but I have an idea or > >three that I fantasize may have some merit :-) And if the results with this > >one individual do not turn out well, well its just one individual and the > >search for truth continues. > > > >Crafty Dog > > On the other hand, if your fighter reverts to the purpose the style was > intended, (while in the ring) imagine what a sight that would be and what > stir you would create. (Oops sorry, let me help you with your eyeball,sir) > I forget the exact thoughts, but didn't Bruce Lee mention something about > the "Arts of War" changing to the "Arts of Sport" and having its original > intent change? (or something like that) I agree with the point you are making Luis. What concerns me however, is getting to that eyeball pluck. If one has not experienced a sound NHB type fighter, even in firm sparring, getting through may be tougher than one imagines. Again I would underline in the Dog Brother experience we have no judges, no referees and no trophies, instead we have the Dog Brother code--the better to allow us to approximate reality and usually survive with our IQ and our bodies intact. I submit the proposition that on the whole the Dog Brothers would handle themselves well in a no-gear death matches , , , likewise War. I am not saying that ours is the only way, merely that I believe it to be an effective one. Woof, Crafty Dog ------------------------------ From: "Jay de Leon" Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 22:15:20 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Jose Rizal, the national hero of the Philippines To Jim Lowe: Thank you for the clarification. (1) You wrote "The author of the Rizal article did a little better in that he says that Rizal is 'one of the national heroes of the Philippines." This brings up the interesting question, when Rizal was proclaimed (by legislative fiat?) as the national hero of the Philippines, who else were considered? Were there more warrior heroes (Andres Bonifacio, Gen. Emilio Aguinaldo, Diego Silang, Lapu-lapu, etc.) than men of letters (Rizal, Apolinario Mabini, Antonio Lopez Jaena, Datu Sumakwel, etc.)? Why did Rizal win out? (2) You wrote "The article was interesting in that it talks about Rizal in martial terms. I found the reading about him training in Japan and Spain interesting." It is a well-known fact that Rizal was an excellent fencer, presumably training extensively in European fencing during his many years of exile in Europe. But what did he train in in Japan? Thank you, Jay de Leon ------------------------------ From: "q" Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 21:38:31 -0700 Subject: eskrima: the caddis guy >For example, I'm a fly fisher, if I mentioned Gary Lafontaine to you and said he's the "Caddis guy". You'd probably stand there scratching your head. (Your probably doing that now>> Jim, Not me...Actually I would say Gary L is a national hero...and so is Doug Swisher, Randall Kaufmann and John Judy. Have you ever read "slackline strategies for flyfishing"? Wanna go fishing? TightLines, Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S. Redondo Beach, Ca ------------------------------ From: "q" Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 01:53:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: eskrima: Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 22:25:55 -0700 <> Sifu Brian, Interesting point. I would say that most people who "drill" usually "appear" to flow but really are just working patterns like tango dance steps. The proof of this is when a new guy works in with your guys and throws off the rythum and upsets the flow. See how many guys get upset by an awkward guy. I always say you can learn from anyone even a geek because he will throw weird angles at you. I have seen many supposedly hot guys get taken out by a geek and a wild shot. The spontaneity and creativity comes when you slip and almost drop your partner and you recover and still win the dance contest. You learn in real-time then go back to the drill to remember what the dance steps are. You understand the dance and how to apply what you need in the dance. I am not sure I understand your last sentence. A strike down a line with a stick is the same as a strike down a line with a hand. A vertical gunting with a stick is the same as with a hand. If students would just keep shortening their sticks and do their techniques I think by the time they got to a palm stick they would have figured out quite a bit by themselves. Regards, Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S. Redondo Beach, Ca. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 4:27:59 PDT Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #288 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.