From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #292 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Fri, 29 June 2001 Vol 08 : Num 292 In this issue: eskrima: Sparring with/against long staffs? eskrima: Getting Better. eskrima: Re: Silat and FMAs eskrima: Kombatan Seminar this Sat in San Francicso eskrima: limited response eskrima: Roland Isla's Views on Rizal eskrima: Calif ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1300 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000), Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Valesky Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 08:43:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: eskrima: Sparring with/against long staffs? I've been mucking about with a 6-foot staff lately. I was wondering if anyone out there has done much work with (or against) long staffs, and, if so, what were your reactions. In reading some of the old-time texts on Western weapon fighting, the quarterstaff was considered a pretty badass weapon; I'm wondering how it fares in one-on-one vs. single/double baton Note: I'm not looking for a match. I ain't _that_ curious. :-) Thanks, Tom ============================================================================ Tom Valesky -- tvalesky@patriot.net -- http://www.patriot.net/users/tvalesky ------------------------------ From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 10:17:18 EDT Subject: eskrima: Getting Better. Roland Isla wrote: This is getting better, I d like your points, this exactly what the UP student is fighting for. I still believed that Dr. Jose P. Rizal is was used by the American legislative and Filipino Politician to cleansed the brain, heart of angry Filipino for Liberty and freedom. Remember, After the Spanish we just change Land Lord the American, That's is why on 1901 Macario Sakay was proclaimed the First President of the Philippine Revolution and was Captured and executed to hang to death on Sept 17, 1907 in Port Bonifacio together with his right side General Lucio De Vega and other Katipunero's. What about General Emilio Aguinaldo, he was persuaded by the American that they will help them free from the hand of Spaniards and he was proclaimed by the Filipino people First President of the Philippine Republic. June 12, 1898. He is also a canadidate for the National Hero, Like Lapu-Lapu, Andres Bonifacio, but the American choice is Dr.Jose P. Rizal becaused of his Moral and educational backgrounds. I totally agree with your Post, Roland but we cant change it the way it is, even up to now the UP student is still questionaing all of this heroes if they really a hero, Like Gen. Emilio Aguinaldo he is Guilty of the first Salvage case, He ordered his man to kill Gat Andress Binifacio and his brother, after the first succesfull battle, becaused he afraid that Andress Bonifacio will take all attention from the public eye instead of him. Jellousy.. Also facts that the national hero is not pure Filipino, Rizal is a Chinese-Filipino descendant called "Mistizo". This fact of history is very inportant to the is related FMA history. Jim Lowe wrote: >> Hello Gat Puno, >>The article appears to have been researched and written in the late 70's by Rene Navarro and was first published by Philippine News here in SFO. The author states that amoung his sources are Agoncillo's "Revolt of the Masses", Gagelonia'a "Rizal's Life" and other works published by the Jose Rizal Centennial Commission. Since the first publication of the article, the author states that other fine resources have been >>authored such as Barangay. I am very familiar with Agoncillos books, History its my favorites subject. I havent seen a words of "Dumog" on Rizals life history. May be whom ever add the word to his repertoire is self assumed.. Anyway nothing wrong to be a creative writer, but I think they should stick to the facts. Tagalog homeboy won't even used the dumog as refer to as wrestling, dumog in Tagalogs refers as a lot of peoples came at the same time to one place. That why I assumed that the writer is Visayan and added an appropriate word to his Martial studied. Jujitsu, and other style of Japanese arts is not written in any Jose Rizal life story, unless the modern writers or authors again try to be selective of words that people would understand especially in recent days. >> The author seems to be writing to a generic audience and states that there is "no record of the style of arnis Rizal studied. However ,from his uncle he may have learned the prevailing system of stickfighting in the Tagalog region called panandata or escrima." He then goes on to call Rizal's Arnis, Arnis de mano, again seeming to >>speak to a generic audience. By the way Pananadata is not a style is a Tagalog word meaning weaponship, The style of Arnis de mano, existed only on recent generation, everyone wanna be different to each other style, but hey during Rizal days there's no system there's a FMA called Arnis de Mano, Eskrima, Estokada, Arnis and etc. all of them are refers a FMA. >>By the way Gat Puno, you seem to know the organizations of the Tagalog region well. Are you familiar with a Sacarias Ilog. He would have been active sometime >>before WWII. My guess would be 1915 - 1935. Jim, Sacarias Ilog I am not sure is this guy is from Bulacan province or Cavite i have to look at it. I read a book his name on it. But there no discription where he came from. Let see if I can info on this from UP. >> In addition put me down for your first book whenever you decide to write it. I,m sure it will be a captivating read. :) I agree. Thanks, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research Center USA ------------------------------ From: "Ernest Westbrook" Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 14:49:56 -0000 Subject: eskrima: Re: Silat and FMAs >Arik Wrote: Hey all, I've been trying to look on the web about the >differences between Silat and any FMA. I'm curious to what you all >think >the advantages are of Silat over FMA and which is better for >self-defense? > Also, I'd like to know how the training is >different.Thanks for the >help. >Arik Dear Arik, I do not think that the differences are that important. I would suggest that finding a good instructor in either is the important thing. In general Silat styles tend to work at a shorter range - trapping/grappling and have a number of upper and lower body combination attacks, that most FMA styles do not - so long as sticks or long blades are being used. It is quite possible to blend these arts, but having a good teacher is essential. If the truth be known and acknowledged by most of us, we trained wwithin certin styles and with certin instructors initiallly because they were close to where we were residing. Later on, with some training and background information we expanded on our choices and added other elements to our martial background. Go with what you have availible and expand out from there. ArchBishop EBrook 2nd Chief Teacher - Surge Eskrima USA THE Wicked Warlock of the West _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Alex France Date: 28 Jun 2001 14:19:58 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Kombatan Seminar this Sat in San Francicso This e-mail is being sent to the Eskrima Digest and blind-cc'd to selected others in response to seminar inquiries like, >>Do you anticipate any schedule here in northern California?<< Grandmaster Ernesto Presas wanted to do some seminars here in Northern Cal, right after arriving and before taking off for the Midwest, but they have all fallen through --not enough time to prepare; although Grandmaster Alemany (Kenpo) in San Francisco said he'll see what he can do for the weekend of July 7-8. GM is arriving from the Philippines today, Thursday, June 28. His son, Jan-Jan is giving a small (10am-1pm) seminar at Lowell High School that was originally just for jr & sr high school students (arranged by Guro Ray Cordoba, the Dean of Students at Lowell). Turnout is expected to be small, and since GM will not have anything to do this weekend, I suggested that they open up that seminar to the public. Cost is $40 (proceeds to go to Jan-Jan and the arnis club at Lowell). People who attend will get three hours of instruction (10am - 1pm); but probably best of all, get to meet and know BOTH Grandmaster Presas Sr & Master Presas Jr by hanging around with us through the rest of the afternoon(we're supposed to be in Vallejo in the evening), just "kickin' it'. After that, experience, you'll have enough info to decide if you want to continue in Kombatan. If you or anyone else is interested in doing this, call Lowell High School for travel directions: Guro Ray Cordoba IPMAF ) Lowell High School Chapter San Francisco, CA Work: (415) 759-2745 & 2730 E-mail: RCsama@aol.com Or, if you're in the North or East Bay area, call me and I can swing by to pick some of you up. (Since I live in the North Bay, I can drop you back home). Alex France (925) 979-6960 Alex.France@kp.org ------------------------------ From: "q" Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 21:16:42 -0700 Subject: eskrima: limited response > >From: GHSoto@aol.com >Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 13:48:20 EDT >Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #288 > >greetings, > >I had a suggestion in the name of balance. I believe and feel that the >martial arts in general, and FMA in particular, have applications beyond >kicking butt and who has the biggest "dick" in town. As I age I personally >feel the need to move beyond strictly ass kicking to other possibilities with >the arts. I want to apply the "arts" in various contexts. > >In the digest I feel the overwhelming thrust is to "take care of business" >which is the bottom line, my question is: Is there room and interest for >other applications? Well, On the surface what you say makes sence. In reality it does not work period. Those who fail to review history are doomed to repeat it. World War 2 is a classic example of the benefits of appeasement. Yes it makes sence to all give up our guns so there will be none left to fall into the hands of criminals but the reality has been proven time and again that when you disarm a population (amoung other bad things) criminals still get guns. In confrontational issues I submit to you that 99% of people are barely equipped to handle the adrenaline and the surprise trained or not. There is no way these same people could read an opponant to determine what response was enough. Hell these people could not read the situation well enough to be aware and prevent the confrontation in the first place. We can all agree that is is way easier to see the confrontation that control it. Once you are in it you have very little options and if you have to physically respond you have already failed in your self-defense. What makes you think you can back-peddle now? Think back to any negative issue in your life. There is not one time that back-peddling did you any good. And I am not referring to back-peddling as in beat feet outta there I'm taking about recovering saving face etc... All those telling you to "take care of business" are those that are still alive and they all have the same story to tell. All the others got beat like a drum. Regards, Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S. Redondo Beach, Ca. ------------------------------ From: "Jay de Leon" Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 19:00:51 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Roland Isla's Views on Rizal To Roland Isla: I welcome all views, opposing or otherwise. You make a lot of valid historical points. In fact, you articulate the arguments I (mistakenly) expected and anticipated Jim Lowe to make when I started this thread by asking him what his objection was to calling Jose Rizal "the national hero of the Philippines." I am aware of the cons against Rizal--too elitist vs. a man of the masses, reformist vs. revolutionary, a man of letters (mostly Spanish at that) vs. a warrior, etc. It is all a matter of definition. At some point in the thread, I asked what were the (legislative) criteria by which Rizal won? I particularly liked GP Abon's criterion of a role model. Who wouldn't want our children to be all that Rizal was--physician, poet, athlete, artist, among many other things? What was the timeline the legislators looked at? (from maybe Lapu-lapu to whom?) Who were considered as possible candidates for this honor? It would have been interesting to have listened to any debates as to how they arrived at the Rizal decision, who the "finalists" might have been, if there was an original list of candidates. You introduce another variable in the mix, including revolutionaries who fought against the Americans, like the honorable gentlemen you mentioned, possibly including controversial heroes like Emilio Aguinaldo, etc. To expand your point, a possible interesting historical exercise would be, who should the national hero of the Philippines be, extending the timeline to the present. You would have to include various heroes of different accomplishments, to include people who fought for independence against the Americans like Roxas and Quezon, and heroes who fought against the Japanese. Thank you for expanding our historical thinking. Jay de Leon ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 22:26:00 PDT Subject: eskrima: Calif Back home in sunny California. On my flights I had chance to read a bio on Cacoy Canete as well as Wiley's new book. Both interesting reads and both with mentions of Cacoy's Death Matches (aka open challenges) as well as the long running public challenges of Doce Pares from the Balintawak group. One article in Wiley's book is by Tony Somera. Interesting that he talks about the West Coast Eskrima Society without a single mention of Mike Inay. Ummm.... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #292 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. 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