From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #293 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Fri, 29 June 2001 Vol 08 : Num 293 In this issue: eskrima: Tom Meadows email Re: eskrima: Tom Meadows email eskrima: Appeasement? eskrima: Animal in Jersey eskrima: Yes eskrima: Pananandata eskrima: to Jay de Leon et al RE: eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #292 (fwd) eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #292 eskrima: [statelists@STATE.GOV: Indonesia - Travel Warning] eskrima: Gat Puno - re: Rizal et al ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1300 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000), Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "James Wilson" Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 23:55:47 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Tom Meadows email The email address I have for Tom Meadows is not current. I know he is a subscriber and would like his input on some training and cirriculum on for whip training I'm doing. Tom, can you email me? My basic whip workout is as follows. 1. Warm up with no cracks, keeping the whip in continuos motion. 2. Forward vertical cracks for accuracy and to continue to warm up. 3. 5 strikes from "Latigo y Daga" 4. Mutiple cracks: 3 cracks, 4 corners, etc. add footwork. 5. Target training for accuracy. Any feedback would be appreciated. thanks, james ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 22:33:49 PDT Subject: Re: eskrima: Tom Meadows email > The email address I have for Tom Meadows is not current. I know he is a > subscriber and would like his input on some training and cirriculum on for > whip training I'm doing. I don't think Tommy 'the whipmaster' is doing email right now. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Rick Lindquist Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 22:45:03 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Appeasement? The Fung meister eloquently replied to a thoughtful question about uses of the martial arts other than to see who's was bigger..., etc. >Well, > >On the surface what you say makes sense. In reality it does not work >period. Those who fail to review history are doomed to repeat it. World >War 2 is a classic example of the benefits of appeasement. I recently read a tidy little book named "Dirty Little Secrets of WW II." There was mention of the accursed Neville Chamberlain who was Prime Minister of Great Britain before Lord Winston. Sir Neville is always castigated as the "Great Appeaser" who sold out Czechoslovakia and Poland to the Nazis. What is not broadcast widely is that he KNEW that his appeasement measures would not work but tried desperately to buy time for Great Britain and the other "allies" to gear up for war rather than to declare too early and lose the whole shooting match; they simply weren't ready for war and needed time. If so, he has been tremendously misjudged. By the way, the point here is not that appeasement works but that tactics sometimes dictate behavior. Regarding martial arts as useful for something else; useful is as useful does (F. Gump). Tools are sometimes beautiful in their own right, and may convey something of aesthetics or the culture that devised them but the main utility is usually in the function of the tool. Form and function usually fit pretty closely. Sigung Bruce talked about finding "the truth through/in combat" and I think that symmetry in life still holds true. There is meaning in combat but its subtleties don't come out except through that medium. Sometimes it's possible to analyze too much. The goal of trapping is not to trap but to hit. >Yes it makes >sense to all give up our guns so there will be none left to fall into the >hands of criminals but the reality has been proven time and again that when >you disarm a population (among other bad things) criminals still get guns. Now that we have no outside enemies requiring the citizenry to have weapons it's in the interest of the state to remove sources of instability. "Why does anybody need..." >In confrontational issues I submit to you that 99% of people are barely >equipped to handle the adrenaline and the surprise trained or not. There is >no way these same people could read an opponent to determine what response >was enough. Hell these people could not read the situation well enough to >be aware and prevent the confrontation in the first place. We can all agree >that it is way easier to see the confrontation than control it. Sometimes that window between seeing and being involved is mighty slim. That's one of the major reasons I train, to recognize that window and have some reasonable responses hard wired. >Once you >are in it you have very little options and if you have to physically respond >you have already failed in your self-defense. What makes you think you can >back-peddle now? Too true, too true. >Think back to any negative issue in your life. There is >not one time that back-peddling did you any good. And I am not referring to >back-peddling as in beat feet outta there I'm taking about recovering saving >face etc... All those telling you to "take care of business" are those that >are still alive and they all have the same story to tell. All the others >got beat like a drum. > >Regards, > >Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S. >Redondo Beach, Ca. > The Romans had a saying, "In times of peace prepare for war." My training is in medicine and intervening in bad situations. I train during routine times for the not routine times. There simply isn't enough time or resources to make all those decisions and little motor movements without training in advance. Nice question and Nice comments, DocFung. 10-10 on the side Rick ------------------------------ From: AnimalMac@aol.com Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 01:59:13 EDT Subject: eskrima: Animal in Jersey From Marc Animal MacYoung Well, Summit New Jersey is never going to be the same. On August 18th and 19th, I and two other "Coalition" members (Sammy Franco and Richard Dimitri) are going to be teaching murder, mayhem, destruction and despair to the denizens of the East Coast (Like they really need help). Apparently I'm scheduled to teach knife work for some reason or the other...who gave them the idea I know what I'm doing with a blade? I dunno... For more information www.combatcoalition.com ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 22:22:01 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Yes A Howl etc: "Pentjakker" asked and commented about the following: > If one has not experienced a sound NHB type >fighter, even in firm sparring, getting through may be tougher than one >imagines. He was correct to note that this is not clear. The comment should be read as being limited to where the NHB fighter is striking, where he is coming forward, then "P" is right that the range for the silat technique will be there. Lino responded to my point: > Hey Crafty, thats why you STAB those NHB guys! Seriously though, I've always said that ANYONE who trains hard to seriously hurt an opponent is a >force to reckon with. Given the NHB jocks you were describing, given the >time they put in thier training, I would be deluding myself into thinking >that going for the throat, eyes, etc. would ensure a win. Damage potential >may be higher,(eg. training to cripple rather than submission) but >execution is another matter altogether. These guys are pro fighters and >thier skill level is honed to an edge. But given the scenario where I have >a knife hidden, and the moment I go down I KNOW twenty other kababayans are >going to jump in & stab or break something over his head from behind, the >guy can't afford to spend time with me on the ground. That is this reality, >can't say what would go on in the States. Exactly so. I would say that such circumstances can arise in the US, for example within the shadow of the criminal culture. The US has the largest percentage of its population in prison of any country in the world and outside of prison these individuals can be found unevenly throughout the population as a whole. If one lives in or near one of these concentrations, NHB fighting may not directly applicable. <:-o For someone working in a prison environment, the war art of FMA is pretty damn valid. (Here Dogzilla is a hero of mine. The world does not know what he deals with every day and must be ready to deal with at the drop of a hat, day in day out-- tedium and terror, and kali is what he looks to. His NHB is pretty good, but prison is war) And certainly we have here in the US the gangbanging culture of which much of the prison culture is merely another face. Here too FMA would be effective, but the issue is keeping it out of such hands! How to do that while also getting it into the right hands? But for most of the population, I agree the reality tends to be different. How then is a war art to live in times of peace without degenerating? This brings us to GHSoto, who wrote: >greetings, >I had a suggestion in the name of balance. I believe and feel that the >martial arts in general, and FMA in particular, have applications beyond >kicking butt and who has the biggest "dick" in town. As I age I personally >feel the need to move beyond strictly ass kicking to other possibilities with >the arts. I want to apply the "arts" in various contexts. >In the digest I feel the overwhelming thrust is to "take care of business" >which is the bottom line, my question is: Is there room and interest for >other applications? >For example, does Sinawalis, with the cross over patterns, have the potential >to affect children, or adults for that matter, with learning disorders? >Specifically dyslexia? >Can learning to block a strike be applied to battered women for developing a >sense of borders and the ability to say "NO?" >So I guess my question is there an interest and a place here for discussion >of topics that range beyond challenges, kicking ass, and who's style is the >best? Is there an interest in topics that promote peace? (Please I understand >that learning martial arts promote peace if taught and practiced in a >"conscious" way. That is not what I am talking about.) >I feel that all of us want for ourselves, families and friends, and >ultimately, all mankind to be happy and live in a non violent environment. So >beyond the obvious are there practitioners who are applying the work in ways >that may not be so obvious. >Thanks and peace This is exactly right. We can look at people doing the Art training in one of two ways: 1) Ha, these guys are clueless, they're just doing mindless tippy tap patterns. 2) To use Grand Tuhon Gaje's punchline "What is this?" i.e. I wonder what the warriors who developed and used this training had in mind? To the extent that I am a warrior, I'll be comprehend the teachings. To the extent that I'm not, I'll miss it. I'm glad those guys are there keeping the Art alive. As I have quoted Wild Dog's daughter on other occasions, "Art is the collective repository of unspoken human wisdom." To the extent that the Art is deep and true, then to that extent it will be there to be picked up when the shadow rules, in new clothes perhaps, but still the same shadow. And every day until that day to the extent that the Art is deep and true it is there healing and harmonizing us, and taking the chance of needing to hurt further and further away. Dr. Gyi speaks of The Three "H"s: Hurting, Healing, Harmonizing. We need all three. Is there room and interest for other applications? Yes. I'm glad Soto has brought this up. Woof, Crafty Dog ------------------------------ From: "Jay de Leon" Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 23:41:42 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Pananandata To Gat Puno Abon: Kabayan, you wrote, "Pananandata is not a style, is a Tagalog word meaning weaponship." I agree about the meaning of the word. Just want you to know my friend GM Mat Marinas calls his style "Pananandata." I have a couple of books written by GM Marinas, who is a prolific writer and has videos on the market. Unfortunately, my books are in storage so I cannot check on the history of his style. So I am going by memory. I believe he is Tagalog (Nueva Ecija, or somewhere there), his style is also a family style, and his system is characterized by long sticks, at least 36 inches or longer, a little slimmer and whippier than the ones we are used to. He currently lives and teaches somewhere in the East Coast, NY or New Jersey, but occasionally makes seminar swings to the West Coast. I do not know when he or his predecessors started using the term "Pananandata." Jay de Leon ------------------------------ From: "Roland Isla" Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:15:47 -0400 Subject: eskrima: to Jay de Leon et al To Jay de Leon, "I welcome all views, opposing or otherwise." Thank you. "It is all a matter of definition. At some point in the thread, I asked what were the (legislative) criteria by which Rizal won?...What was the timeline the legislators looked at?" Have you ever read Renato Constantino's "A Past Revisited", as well as his other works. He goes into great detail about why and how Jose Rizal was chosen. Essentially, it was as I mentioned. "I particularly liked GP Abon's criterion of a role model. Who wouldn't want our children to be all that Rizal was--physician, poet, athlete, artist, among many other things?" It wasn't that long ago that Rizal's works, Noli Me Tangere and El Filibusterismo, were banned for Filipino school children as too anti-clerical. Afterwards, they were only offered in a sanitized, modified format. "You introduce another variable in the mix, including revolutionaries who fought against the Americans, like the honorable gentlemen you mentioned, possibly including controversial heroes like Emilio Aguinaldo, etc." Controversial is right! No disagreements there. There is a school of thought (and kind of I subscribe to it), that if you look at all of the ills with Philippine Governance and leadership today, that you can trace it's lineage back to Aguinaldo. This is probably why there is such an effort to resurrect Andres Bonifacio (read Glenn Anthony May's (sp?) book on the process of hero building) as hero and not the man who had him executed. "To expand your point, a possible interesting historical exercise would be, who should the national hero of the Philippines be, extending the timeline to the present. You would have to include various heroes of different accomplishments, to include people who fought for independence against the Americans like Roxas and Quezon, and heroes who fought against the Japanese." Artemio Ricarte is a fascinating historical figure. He fought and refused to surrender to the Americans, so much so that he was exiled to Japan and even came back with the Japanese Military during WWII to continue his fight against the Americans. I think that part of the problem is how we visualize a "hero," and often that involves bigger-than-life characters performing super human or at least life sacrificing deeds. Another problem is what we are taught about people. Everyone talks about the anti-Japanese guerilla movement, but reality was that most prominent Filipinos in the Philippines were collaborators not guerillas. And more Filipino guerillas were killed fighting each other than were killed fighting the Japanese. (read Constantino on this) (Having said this and to put context to this statement, the Philippines is not unique in this regard. Everyone in France likes to sound as if they were members of the Free French Underground, when in fact France had a strong history of fascism and there were more French at the time who were on side with German appointee and former war hero Marshal Petin. And some historical accounts have more French killed fighting against the Allies than fighting against the Germans in WWII. Other cases would include Burma, India and Indonesia where colonized peoples had to make choices between competing colonizers.) My father worships Ramon Magsaysay, after doing some historical study, I am much less enamored with him. If I can suggest some modern nominees (aside from the "bandoleros" and "tulisans",I mentioned earlier like Sakay, Montalan, Ricarforte and San Miguel, and of course, Bonifacio) I would suggest a couple of writers, the aforementioned nationalist historian Renato Constantino, writer Fransisco Sionil Jose and Senator Claro M. Recto. Who would you suggest Mr. de Leon? Or you, Gat Puno Baet? Thank you for you eloquent reply Mr. de Leon. Sincerely, Roland Isla ------------------------------ From: Eli Silva Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:22:01 -0500 Subject: RE: eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #292 (fwd) In the light of FMA and Dr. jose' Rizal, I don't know if he was ever relevant with the FMA in general but him dealing with the Filipino masses, particularly with the "revolutionists", I am pretty sure that he got his hand on a baston in one form or another. With his intellect, it is not surprising if he even get to look at the philosophies and the fighting strategies of this "indigenious art". There is however, a historical account of our beloved Rizal who delved into the art of fencing as in "European fencing"....Being contemporaries with other elitists such as the famous Artist and painters Juan Luna and Felix Resurreccion Hidalgo and other "national heroes" (I cannot recall their names... I should have listened more from my teachers and read more when I was in the Philippines!)....he got his share of lunging with the swords. Anyway, the art of fencing is considered an art of the "bourgeous" and only belongs to the elite. The Arnis de Mano, Kali, escrima, estokadas...etc. are the native Filipino arts that belongs to the "revolutionists". Rizal, who belongs to both the Katipuneros (indirectly) and the Spanish "bourgeous", isn't surprising that he appreciate both arts' martial prowess as well as the historical influences. After all, he is a Renaissance man. My only concern is the accuracy of the terminology such as "Espada Y daga" which refers to the Sword and dagger methodologies of our Arnis and Kali, whether it is just the "label" that we got from the Spaniards or some say the Italians. I am sure that the confrontations of the Katipuneros who are Arnis adepts, have witnessed the figurative and literal sense of the slashes of the Spaniards' mighty swords.... Is there anyone there who can really come up with the documentation/s of our Arnis and kali histories even from the Indonesian and Malayan influence and eventually from the Spanish and Italian overlapping of techniques???/..How about the Kuntao and her Chinese lineages of other Gung fu?...I have heard also of other unique Gung Fu and even Tai Chi that existed in the Philippines during the Pre-Colonial and post-colonial times..... Anyway, I have written all of these, much to my delight of the FMA in general. Thank you. Eulalio ------------------------------ From: Eli Silva Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:22:56 -0500 Subject: eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #292 Silat or FMA............ The similarities of both art is parallel to that of the history of the Philippines. The Philippine Islands were part of the Madjapahit Empire which is really a unity of the Indonesian and Malayan archipelago that strecthes as far north as the Philippine Islands. Only did the Spaniards occupation (Magellan landed on P.I. in 1521) "separated" the Filipinos from her brothers and sisters. Philippines is of Chino-Indo-Malayan culture during the pre-colonial (Spanish). Inevitably, in relation to the martial arts, the lines have been blurred between the Silat and FMA. Though the FMA are considered "indigenious" to the Filipinos as far as the speciality of weapons based culture, the FMA have without its influences from her predecessors, the Chinese, the Indonesians and the Malays. Look at the Arts, Food, language, architecture and you will see the heavy influences. I agree that most responses regarding this issue is of positive ones, I just like to say that if you go the Southern-most part of the Philippines (Mindanao..Where my father grew up in General Santos City) The Muslims still persist as if it were in the 1800 most specially in the rural areas of Mindanao. I remember the stories of my father as a farmer and his old stories of Maguindanao and the Muslims....The datus donning their Kris swords on their waists and ready for any would be attackers. My father also have witnessed their past times during breaks while farming, of their display of their martial arts, their use of their tools and weaponries for both work and play. Their silat dances and their grapplings. In this case, the silat is a Filipino Silat...transplanted as if from a time capsule..on the land of the Philippines. Silat, in my opinion, is a mother art that transcend to the "indigenious" FMA, the use of our own kris, punyal, daga, sibat, baston and many more. After all, why fight "fair" while you have more chances of surviving if you use the blade....hahaha. In conclusion, I say, let us rejoice that we all celebrate this magnificent union of culture and the arts. Silat and FMA, ultimately is beyond self defense, but a developmental tool for self betterment which identify the peoples of these cultures. No one art is superior to others. It is the people behind the blade....the person that transcend this paradoxical tool of death, the sword and the art, into something positive and appreciative of its own culture. Thank you, Eulalio Silva > ---------- > From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com > Reply To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com > Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 10:26 PM > To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com > Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #292 > > ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 8:11:37 PDT Subject: eskrima: [statelists@STATE.GOV: Indonesia - Travel Warning] Forwarded message: Indonesia - Travel Warning June 27, 2001 The Department of State urges American citizens to defer nonessential travel to Indonesia and all travel to Aceh, Maluku, Papua, West Timor, Central and West Kalimantan (Borneo) and Central Sulawesi. Those who must travel to Indonesia, or who are resident there, should exercise extreme caution. Indonesia is experiencing a major political transition, and unrest and violence can erupt with little forewarning anywhere in the country. Bombings of religious, political and business targets have occurred throughout the country. In addition, events in the Middle East have sparked anti-American protests in the past. Due to the continuing threat of serious violence, all travel should be avoided to the regions of Aceh, Maluku, West Timor, Central and West Kalimantan and Central Sulawesi. Further, all travel by U.S. and other foreign government officials to Aceh, Papua and the Moluccas (provinces of North Maluku and Maluku) has been restricted by the Indonesian government because of security concerns. Private Americans should adhere to these same restrictions. A massive bombing campaign struck churches throughout Indonesia on Christmas Eve, 2000, leaving at least 16 dead and over one hundred injured. Bombings occurred in the cities of Medan, Pekanbaru, Batam, Bandung, Sukabumi, Bekasi, Jakarta, Mojokerto, Surabaya and Mataram. Bombings have also occurred over the past year at Indonesian government buildings, foreign diplomatic facilities and business and financial centers, including the Jakarta Stock Exchange. More explosive devices have been discovered in Jakarta since Christmas, and there are indications that the bombings may continue. On occasion, the U.S. mission in Indonesia may have to suspend services to the public or close because of security concerns. In those situations, the Embassy will continue to be available by telephone to offer emergency services to American citizens. Some foreign travelers in troubled areas of Indonesia have been subject to arbitrary arrest, detention and deportation and, on at least one occasion, false accusations of espionage. In November, 2000, in the central Java city of Solo, groups opposed to U.S. policy undertook or threatened "sweeps," trying to identify American citizens and order them to depart the country. There also have been a number of acts of intimidation and violence directed at American companies and U.S. diplomatic facilities. Indonesian security officials have sometimes been unwilling or unable to respond. The Abu Sayyaf terrorist group has been active throughout the islands in the extreme southwest Philippines, near Indonesia, and have kidnapped American citizens in the Philippines. American citizens traveling to the border regions in Northern Kalimantan and North Sulawesi, in particularly the smaller islands closer to the Philippines, are urged to review their security procedures. American citizens resident or traveling in Indonesia are advised to exercise caution at all times, be alert to suspicious or unclaimed packages, vary times and routes and other aspects of personal daily routine and keep a low profile. Updated information on travel and security in Indonesia may be obtained from the U.S. Embassy in Jakarta by calling tel. (62)(21) 3435-9000, or the Consulate General in Surabaya by calling tel. (62)(31) 567-2287/8. For further information, U.S. citizens planning to visit or reside in Indonesia are advised to consult the Department of State's Consular Information Sheet for Indonesia. The Consular Information Sheet is available at any U.S. embassy or consulate abroad and through the Department of State, Bureau of Consular Affairs Internet home page at http://travel.state.gov/. This Travel Warning replaces the February 27, 2001 Travel Warning for Indonesia to update the security situation by advising U.S. citizens to defer all travel to West Kalimantan. Information concerning East Timor is contained in a separate Public Announcement. ------------------------------ From: "Roland Isla" Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 10:47:37 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Gat Puno - re: Rizal et al Hello Gat Puno, Gat Puno wrote: "I still believed that Dr. Jose P. Rizal is was used by the American legislative and Filipino Politician to cleansed the brain,heart of angry Filipino for Liberty and freedom." You're absolutely correct Gat Puno. The Americans officially ended the "Philippine Insurrection" in 1901, but fighting continued until 1910 in some areas, 1916 in other areas. They needed a hero for the people to focus on, so as to not make heroes of the people still fighting them whom they labeled as bandits, "bandoleros" and "tulisans." What better choice than a man of letters who exercised his martial skills in the manner of a European gentleman instead of a Tondo (a port area of Manila) barber. Besides, it wasn't them who executed Rizal it was the Spanish. I'm sure that if it was the Spanish who had taken over from the Americans (and not the other way around), that their nominee for national hero would have been Gregorio del Pilar, who died fighting the Americans at Tirad Pass. "but the American choice is Dr.Jose P. Rizal because of his Moral and educational backgrounds." It is nearly impossible to say anything against such a noble figure who has been raised to the level of deity to some Filipinos. "I totally agree with your Post, Roland but we cant change it the way it is, even up to now the UP student is still questioning all of this heroes if they really a hero, Like Gen. Emilio Aguinaldo he is Guilty of the first Salvage case, He ordered his man to kill Gat Andres Binifacio and his brother, after the first successful battle, because he afraid that Andres Bonifacio will take all attention from the public eye instead of him. Jealousy." One of the things not generally known about the war against the Americans was the great number of Filipinos killed by other Filipinos. The Kawit Division was supposedly the best in the Philippine forces, but they refused to fight for commanders who weren't Caviteno and were rumored to be the ones who executed General Antonio Luna, the best field commander on the Philippine side. There was so much factionalism and regionalism that it was a wonder that the Americans felt any resistance at all. Let's be honest, the Philippines was hardly a country at all at the time with people seeing themselves as Cavitenos, Batanguenos, Illocanos, etc, instead of Filipino. Also facts that the national hero is not pure Filipino, Rizal is a Chinese-Filipino descendant called "Mistizo". Who among us is "pure Filipino?" Both culturally and racially, we're almost all Malay, Hispanic, American, and Oriental. But you are right again, there is great resistance amongst many Filipinos to accept the Chinese (no matter how many generations they've been there) as fully Filipino. And this may be one reason why most people do not know or care to know that Rizal is Mestizo of Chinese descent as opposed to Spanish descent. Thank you for your reply. Hopefully, I can meet you one day. Sincerely, Roland Isla ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #293 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.