From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #302 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Wed, 4 July 2001 Vol 08 : Num 302 In this issue: eskrima: Re: drilling eskrima: Re: Kickboxer's Broken Leg eskrima: Re: Tuhon McGrath recommendation eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #301 eskrima: Rock em sock em robots eskrima: Filipino emptyhands eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1300 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000), Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Pentjakker" Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 11:08:30 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re: drilling >> On the silat vs. FMA a little to add and just an observation is that >> silat and fma have alot overlap in their motion and techniques but FMA seems >> to place more emphasis on drills perhaps. Is this an American convention? >> I.e knife tapping drills of FMA, the same or similar motions are there in >> silat but in my experience they're not put together in a repeating drill >> format as in some FMA's. Any thoughts on this? >> To which Todd replied: There's plenty of drills... Let me attempt to clarify this bit and see if I can't dig myself out of this hole somewhat. Yes, in my experience (IME) there are plenty of drills too in silat. What I was pondering is the repetitive, reciprocal type of drills of give and take or sumbrada type of drills seem pretty typical in FMA but not so much so in silat. The question being why this emphasis? I know there are exceptions to this general observation but was wondering what other thinks about this. Pros vs. cons. Some Dog brothers lamented how before the db experience they felt like sumbrada studs but this notion and it's viability(?) really seemed to go out the window when out on the field... On the separate knife thread: As a practical matter I'm more concerned with learning to defend against it than use it. As Tuhon Bill mentioned, in America, using or practicing blade has a negative social stigma and it carries over into the courts. Heck threatening to hit someone is assault already but if nothing escalated from there it probably wouldn't even make into court but if you brandished a knife against someone even without using it I think you could find yourself in a bad legal situation. (Standard disclaimer applies I'm no lawyer and this is just a SWAG.) I'm not the apt to share knife technique with outsiders simply because I don't know their intentions. On the other hand neither do I understand the notion of some evil to great to resist... say what??? DoodooDoodoo you are now entering the twilight zone... chiding aside then again why would John Q Public need to know sentry removal techniques? I can think of only one valid reason at the moment - conservation of the knowledge and yes it belongs in trusted hands. On a different vein, yes all the drills are nice serve a purpose etc. but the most useful IMHO and again I'm mostly interested in defending against the blade, is to spar empty hand verses aluminium. Your opponent shouldn't skewer you but for sure let you know what didn't work. We've used a chest protector in class but how quick they forget to respect the blade. How quickly one learns what is meaningful and what is superfluous. Regards, Travis ------------------------------ From: Kel620@aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 14:24:01 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Kickboxer's Broken Leg Here's the website: http://www.taggsolutions.com/files/kickbreak.mpeg ------------------------------ From: "Bill Lowery" Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 18:28:19 +0100 Subject: eskrima: Re: Tuhon McGrath recommendation Hi All, Following Tuhon McGrath recommendation two of the five video set from Guro Inosanto, please follow the link to see my review of all five tapes :-) http://www.pfs-stx.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard//topic.cgi?forum=1&topic=94 Bill Lowery ------------------------------ From: Jesse Manibusan Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 09:01:46 -1000 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #301 on 7/4/01 3:59 AM, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com at eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com wrote: > From: "Jay de Leon" > Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 15:10:33 -0700 > Subject: eskrima: FMA empty hands > > I am confused by the thread on FMA empty hands. It would seem that there > are three major definitions of FMA empty hands : > > (1) it must be a translation of a weapon technique. >> >> SNIP >> > As a marketing tool, I profess to teach Filipino kickboxing, and candidly > describe it as Muay Thai kickboxing with dirty FMA techniques and tactics. > In the same vein, are the Yaw-Yan ring fighters considered FMA empty hand > fighters or hybrid kickboxers? An art by any other name would hurt just as > sweet? > > Jay de Leon I myself have found it hard to distinguish a lot of what is FMA and stuff like Chi-Sao and Silat which have movements very similar, especially when done fast. Since humans share a common biology, they are apt to arrive at much of the same body-mechanics philosophies in fighting, even though seperated by geography, time and even religion and other influences. What amazed me about some of the older Eskrimadors who did not have training in any other arts was how great their punching was, very highly evolved, as if they were boxers. Their footwork looked like boxing. Even though I don't think highly of punching, compared to other open hand type striking, I was very impressed with how effectively they could use their knuckles. I myself regard FMA empty hands as your (1) definition. But thatıs just how I have been taught. I have heard, but not seen (due to my limited experience with other styles) that there are FMA styles which are completely empty-hand based and have no weapons aspect. What I like about FMA is that it makes an excellent complement to other "popular" arts like JuJitsu and Muay Thai, and vice versa. > From: "BILL MCGRATH" > Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 01:17:14 -0400 > Subject: eskrima: FMA empty hands > > In a previous post the point was made that so few people in the FMAs seem to > use FMA empty hands as their only empty hand technique. Part of the problem > may be, as some have said here, that so few FMA instructors in the U.S. > emphasize or even have the empty hand aspect of their art. Part of the > problem also may be that so few people (at least in my experience) come to > the FMAs in the U.S. as a pure beginner without any prior martial arts > background. It is difficult to exclude the first foundational techniques you > learned from another system while you are under the stress of sparring, even > when deliberately trying to. Yes, very true in my experience. I had a very hard time adjusting from Muay Thai and Aiki-Jujitsu to Eskrima. The footwork is very different and the striking elements on the body are different. I wasn't taught to use shins as a weapon in Eskrima so I didn't "chamber" in such a way as to have the shins "at the ready". Besides, I wouldn't want to use shin kicks and risk taking a hit in the shins with a rattan stick, that would be the end of me... Also, having a weapon in the hand was VERY distracting. I think my first real victory was just keeping the stick from hitting myself. Regarding the comment in your last sentence about excluding the first foundational techniques learned from prior training: Even now, several years after starting Eskrima, if I were startled on the street, my first pysical response might be Muay Thai instead of Eskrima. It is INDEED hard to change the physical and mentals imprint of those prior arts from your muscle memory. > I am curious. What percentage of ED list members first began their martial > arts training in FMA? (I'll raise my hand for this question) I wasn't lucky enough to start in FMA first. I say lucky not because I think FMA is superior, but because its more suited to my body style than Muay Thai and Aiki-Jujitsu. I just like it better. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: "Rocky" Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 19:06:44 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Rock em sock em robots Buzz Wrote: >scientists decided to trim the hedge hoisting a mower by its wheels. After >losing several digits each due to their damnfoolishness, these gents sued the >manufacturer claiming malfeasance and everyone using a mower since has to >contend with an ill-conceived cut out switch. Can the day when we all have to >train martial arts via Rock 'Em Sock 'Em Robots be very far behind? The only way to stop this is to Kill all the Lawyers, except Crafty, and my top student Hal, and any of your friends and a few others here and there :-) Rocky ------------------------------ From: POWERFACTOR71839@aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 19:05:11 EDT Subject: eskrima: Filipino emptyhands (1) it must be a translation of a weapon technique. (2) it must be taught as a FMA technique - such as cadena de mano, gunting, trapping hands,etc. (3) it may be any style, but try to incorporate as many FMA techniques as you can. Can anyone in draw the line between Lacoste Silat and Lacoste Eskrima emptyhands? Tom Furman ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 17:30:15 PDT Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #302 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.