From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #303 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Thur, 5 July 2001 Vol 08 : Num 303 In this issue: eskrima: FMA Unarmed fighting eskrima: Training with knives and other implements eskrima: Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 20:03:38 -0700 eskrima: -Leg Damage Response- eskrima: Drills eskrima: --Hybrid kickboxers and adjusting-- eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1300 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000), Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marc Denny" Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 16:22:06 -0700 Subject: eskrima: FMA Unarmed fighting A Howl of greeting to all: There have been several interesting comments on the FMA empty hand thread and herewith a yip of mine on the matter. Sorry if I don't give proper credits for the different points made. Sundry points: Although in many FMA systems the empty hand component is non-existent, a minimal back-up for when there are no knives handy, or of good level but incomplete, in my opinion there are systems that have considerable depth and an evolved and effective teaching progression. Of the ones with which I am familiar, Inosanto Blend, Pekiti Tirsia, and Villabraille Kali come to mind. ( I am sure there are many others-- they are simply amongst the long list of things about which I do not know.) This is NOT to say that these systems are better than those whose interest is more exclusively focused on the weaponry. It is merely but another example of the extraordinary variety of the FMA. Boxing: If you believe that the John Sullivan era with the fist palm up was brought to an end by the American experience in the Philippines, then modern boxing is merely an unaccredited sporting offshoot of the FMA and when you see NHB using boxing techniques you are seeing FMA in action. I think it was Bill who made the point about first systems and that he was different in his training in that his empty hand base was FMA-- Pekiti Tirsia in his case. (Anyone interested can check out the videos he did in this regard for Allen Sacetti a few years back. To my eye, Bill's empty hand movement and structure looks pretty effective.) I agree with Bill's point that many people get their first striking skills elsewhere and, to put it in my words, may not have the time and interest to change it to FMA. Sporting structures have the advantage that they can be tested under pressure. This can be overdone however. Vitor Belfort had excellent sport boxing skills on top of a BJJ Vale Tudo base, but when he faced Randy Coutoure (trained by JKD Kali man Matt Thorton) who held while he struck, Belfort was taken out of his game. Panatukan has different levels of intent. Some fit within NHB Vale Tudo, whereas the full-on real deal Panantukan does not. But to believe in the latter without training in the former sometimes runs risks of not knowing one's level or being able to assess the level of others accurately. People who want to have hierarchy fights tend to go into Boxing/Muay Thai for their striking skills. People interested in street anti-criminal skills often go into FMA. To directly compare individuals from the two groups in the sporting environment for which one of them trains and the others does not in my opinion does not yield a sound scientific basis for doubting FMA emptyhand systems. When you have tons of FMA schools full of young male athletes , many of them on steroids, competing intensely (15-20 hours week would be quite common) for cage fights then we have a similar gene pool from which to draw for our little quasi-scientific testings. I think if one had a good sized class of young studs it would be entirely possible to produce strikers who could and would do very well in the cage-- even with the limitations of NHB rules. Woof, Crafty Dog ------------------------------ From: "Michael Koblic" Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 19:35:02 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Training with knives and other implements "Also, having a weapon in the hand was VERY distracting. I think my first real victory was just keeping the stick from hitting myself." LOL! I had the same experience with the knife (or even worse, TWO knives!). Fortunately they were blunt or the red stuff would have flown freely. On the other hand I must admit that I lost a 3-round fight to a heavy bag on TKO. - ---------- A point of interest: someone mentioned the questionable need for a general public to know the sentry removal techniques: The first two knife techniques I learned were just that - one from and East German book about the special forces in WW2 (actually the Wehrmacht) and the "Bridge over the River Kwai". Both describe them in great detail. I was about 11 at the time. I practised them some but never got to use them in earnest. Not much call for them I suppose. The morale of the story: The info is out there if you look hard enough. Those who seek shall find. Does anybody have an idea of the stuff you can learn inside of a correctional facility? Mike Koblic, Campbell River, BC ------------------------------ From: "Kyud" Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 23:35:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: eskrima: Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 20:03:38 -0700 Greetings and Salutations. Hope all had a great 4th of July. Filipino Website has a couple Drills and techniques on it now. Want to have some of yours let the editor know. http://www.filipinomag.com/ He would like to get some from different styles of FMA. Respectfully Steven Dowd ------------------------------ From: ECampbell@HHSI.COM Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 08:56:12 -0500 Subject: eskrima: -Leg Damage Response- - --I sure missed the Dennis Alexio vs Rick Rufuss' brother fight....but I'm sure the "Pain" was just the same...? I have'nt seen many leg breakage but it makes me extra careful now during competition and practice. To add to my last post >>>>timing and nontelegraphicness<<<< I thought this was what the leg blocking fella had and the kickee should have used ..this may have save a Fibia/Tibia .....but this is just a comment and not written in stone ( law that is) Thanx for the response ..Jessmani@yahoo.. happy training and........................ "To change with change is the changeless state." - --Bruce Lee-- Peace E r i c " E~M a n " C a m p b e l l ......M u a y T h a i ....... Heritage Physicians Network ------------------------------ From: Eagle556@aol.com Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 11:02:50 EDT Subject: eskrima: Drills <<< What I was pondering is the repetitive, reciprocal type of drills of give and take or sumbrada type of drills seem pretty typical in FMA but not so much so in silat. The question being why this emphasis?>>> I would say that the over emphasis of repetitive, reciprocal drills is the direct result of seminars. When I first began training in the FMAs there weren't alot of drills. Then as the seminar became more and more popular I noticed that repetitive drills became more and more predominant in some individuals training. I have traveled around quite a bit in the last 25 years and have met quite a few practitioners. I always hear questions such as, "What? You mean you don't know so and so's number 64 drill, version 32, subcategory 16, variation A?" No, I reply, sorry I don't know that one. They always shake their heads in amazement that I don't know all these various repetitive, reciprocal drills. I never realized that my education in the FMAs was so lacking. :-) I have a simple method of training. I teach the student a couple of counters and then I expect them to be able to perform these counters under stress and under a variety of circumstances. I have found that this method works well whether I am training the student in impact weapons, blades, empty hands, or firearms. It also worked well during my time in the service training military individuals from the US and foreign countries. Don't get me wrong about seminars. I love seminars and am planning to attend one next Saturday, I can't wait. However, due to the dynamics of some individual's seminars (i.e. the way they present their material) there has been a lot of drills introduced so that the seminar participant might be able to better remember what they were taught at the seminar. These drills were never meant to replace the free flow concept that is one of the foundations of the FMAs. It was simply meant to be a supplement but in a lot of cases has replaced or overshadowed all other training methods. Some of us in the FMAs don't have this emphasis in the repetitive, reciprocal drills. To each his own. Take care, Rob McDonald ------------------------------ From: ECampbell@HHSI.COM Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 11:47:02 -0500 Subject: eskrima: --Hybrid kickboxers and adjusting-- - --In response to adjusting-- I originally started out in Muay Thai and incorporated what I could from other arts from books ( not many other styles at all) using the ......the Bruce Lee philosophy......"use what is useful and reject what is useless." Although I'm fairly new to escrima/arnis....2-3 years solo learning thru books email responses and of course the net, I've used the stick from a basic Muay Thai / frontal/ and a /strong side forward stance, they all have there strong and weak points, but I am able to incorporate my Muay Thai techniques with anyone of these stances well. The angles are different and at times can seem similar ( square, female and male triangle, hour glass , the "Y" etc:) but with practice you know what can be done (added) to make the techniques blend together and work for "YOU," I'm no pro nor consider myself one great with Muay Thai, Escrima/Eskrima/Arnis etc: but only time and experience ..street and or classroom will tell what will work for you, ..............................one last thing, be true to yourself and training, and it WILL work. Salamat E r i c " E~M a n " C a m p b e l l ......M u a y T h a i ....... Heritage Physicians Network Houston, Tx. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 11:32:28 PDT Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #303 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.