From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #322 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Tues, 17 July 2001 Vol 08 : Num 322 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Datu wasted day eskrima: WSJ: A Kidnapped Economy eskrima: Buntot Page eskrima: Divert your course eskrima: kali and bad movies eskrima: Re: other weapons eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1300 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000), Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ernest Westbrook" Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 17:46:53 -0000 Subject: eskrima: Re: Datu wasted day tapps2112@yahoo.com, has written: > >Today is my day off and I decided to enjoy it by >catching up on issues of the digest. BAD MOVE ! I have had days like that, as well and you expressed it so well, thanks. >It seems like a soap opera to me, I miss 40 or so >issues and when I get back the same old Datu debate is >going on. Damnest thing in the world isn't it, so why are you adding to the mix? >I've been lurking here for about 5 years and frankly, >this is getting boring. > >Here is my synopsis: > >Mr. Hartman made a joke. > >Mr de Leon didn't get it. > >Mr. Westbrook has some personal ax to grind with Mr. >Hartman. Actually it is Nothing Personal, it is a cultural difference of opinion that you just don't seem to get either. Making a joke of it does not help to end the topic does it? >This is old. I agree, so why not stop commenting? >Mr. Westbrook why do you feel compelled to pick apart >every post Mr. Hartman writes. This forum is supposed >to be an open exchange of views but frankly one of the >reasons I don't post often is because I see an awful >lot of the personal vendettas that you seem to engage >in. Actually, I was in support of Mr. Hartman, on several points with regard to some of the recent IMAF stuff, after all he is the highest ranked of the active players, isn't he? He got shafted with regard to the leadership by committee thing. IF I had a personal vendetta going, would I be willing to acknowledge that set of facts, much less put it in writing that I believe that he got hosed? Get real fella! >There are a lot of people with good information and >opinions on this list. I want to hear them all. Some I >like, some I don't and a lot of them I'm indifferent >to. I gotta tell ya ... your negative posts follow >everything Mr. Hartman contributes are about as >predictable as the sunrise and nowhere near as >pleasant. Then do not read anything that I write! I will never know that you passed over my posts, nor will I be offended. >As for Mr. Hartman's endorsement by Professor Presas: >I personally heard the professor ask Mr. Hartman to >teach his son Joseph. That speaks volumes to me. I >have personally heard FROM THE PROFESSOR on numerous >occasions that he supports Tim Hartman and anything he >is doing. There are also volumes spoken when there is an official organizational endorsement from Professor Presas for Mr. Delany and not one given for the WMAA. I can understand why the latter may not have occured AND that does not diminish the importance or significance of the personal request made by Professor. The two things *are not* mutually exclusive! BTW, how old is Joseph? Would the training be done at Mr. Hartman's school? Would the training be in the same seminar mode as Mr. Hartman received from Professor, every few months, 3-5 times a year? >If you don't like Mr. Hartman ... OK. The "Masters of >Tapi - Tapi" are all competent teachers of Modern >Arnis. I personally think Chuck Gauss from Michigan is >the best of that group but that's just an opinion. Actually after all that I had read and more importantly, Not Read, I wouldn't consider training with the "motts"! But that is another matter, for another post... maybe, maybe not. >Can we let this die before I waste another day. Of course we can. Don't write about the matter and I will not bore you with logic, reason or cultural arguements. >I've got laundry to do. I believe that you have more laundry to do than you realize. BTW, you wrote a nice sidebar in Blackbelt Magazine April 1998, I believe, under the title, "Modern Arnis, the Next Generation". >Paul O'Grady > >ps > >Mr. Westbrook, my father has been disgruntled since >the catholic church stopped saying mass in Latin. How >do you think he would feel about the "Archbishop" >thing. Is that a joke or an insult ? Damned if I would know, Mr. O'Grady. I have never spoken to your father. And I can assure you that the title is no more a joke than other title bestowed by MA masters and grand masters, including M.Sc. and Ph.D. ArchBishop EBrook 2nd Chief Teacher - Surge Eskrima USA THE Wicked Warlock of the West _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 10:38:31 -0700 Subject: eskrima: WSJ: A Kidnapped Economy A Howl of Greeting to All: The following is from the Asian Wall Street Journal. Perhaps our many Filipino members could offer their perspective? Crafty Dog - ---------------------------------------- 7/17/1 A Kidnapped Economy Philippine President Gloria Macapagal Arroyo's first six months in office have been rocky. The economy is still a wreck, and an ongoing war with separatist rebels diverts significant public resources and attention away from reforming the corruption-riddled government. In Manila, it's common to hear public pronouncements that the nation's economy won't turn around until after the defeat of the Abu Sayyaf, a Muslim group that snatches up tourists relaxing at area resorts. But important as that victory would be, it's not enough. That's because the nation's hostage crisis is much bigger than the Abu Sayyaf. At least 18 foreigners were abducted by other criminal gangs in the first five months of this year alone, and many of them eventually were killed. The number of Filipinos kidnapped is unknown, but estimated to be several times that number -- and over the years thousands more locals have been victimized. No wonder the Philippines' list of nasty nicknames has been growing lately. Regional publications have tagged the country the "Colombia of Asia" and Manila the "Kidnap Capital." The essential point in this mess is that hostage-taking has long been a growth industry for all kinds of groups. The capital's gangs have no ideological motivations and are simply profit-driven. For years, ransoms have been paid to free nabbed businessmen or their family members. Caving into ransom demands begets more kidnappings, and to this day business is good for the body snatchers. Freedom-for-cash deals have become so common that many aren't even publicized anymore. This hardly makes for a pleasant environment in which to do business. As Michael Alan Hamlin, director of the TeamAsia consultancy group based in Metro Manila, explains, "This means that in the view of foreign investors who create jobs, the administration is not capable of effectively addressing its most obvious problem: outlaws. And if it can't do that, why bother with the country at all?" The high cost of violent crime is on display in Manila, where a whole industry has sprung up to provide personal and home security services. We're not talking about mere household alarms, either, but fortified gates, bulletproof windows and private security guards. In the chic boutiques of Makati, it is common to see shoppers being dropped off by guards driving three-ton Ford Expedition sport utility vehicles and then shadowed by a guard or two sporting small briefcases. The heavy trucks are reinforced with armor-plating, and the briefcases hold Mac-10s or other automatic weapons. One can't step foot in a Manila shopping mall without being frisked by guards. Meanwhile, the Abu Sayyaf standoff has shown that the Arroyo administration will have to commit a lot more resources if it wants to win that fight. As the Journal reported last week, the cost of deploying thousands of troops to the southwestern island of Basilan has ravaged the already thin defense budget. The underequipped army is consistently bested by the rebels, who use ransom booty to recruit fighters and purchase top-of-the-line arms. In the Philippines, it is always politically popular to get tough with Muslim groups. Shortly before his impeachment, even former President Joseph Estrada saw his approval rating hit 85% when he ordered strikes against rebel strongholds. But while this might help a president in the polls, it is not enough to improve the lives of regular Filipinos who need relief from the economic slump. President Arroyo has announced an all-out war against crime and a slew of incentives to help jump-start the economy. But new investment is unlikely to flow if her promises don't lead to real improvement in law and order. - -- From The Asian Wall Street Journal ------------------------------ From: "Jason" Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 11:36:58 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Buntot Page Kenjo, > I have heard that some FMAs employ the 'panyo' > (hankerchief), 'malong' (a clothing apparel), 'lubid' > (rope), 'latigo' (whip), and 'buntot page' (tail of a > manta/sting ray) - in that order - being taught to > very advanced students in kali after they master the > stick/knife/pangamot concepts/principles. My Father was a big fan of what you call Buntot Page. He called it Yantok. He liked to use it with a dagger, hence Yantok Y Dagga. One of the last times I taught with him was late summer in Campbell Ca. He had me use Yantok Y Dagga while he attacked me with a stick. He in turn decided to reverse rolls with me and have me attack with a stick while he used the Yantok. I was almost blinded and have small scars from the cuts he put on my head (needless to say we don't put the manta tail on while practicing), I was looking away as he was "defending" after he hit me in my eye at the beginning of the demo. The funny part was we were laughing the whole time we did this, the onlookers must have thought it strange. A father and son beating on eachother with Glee :) Jason Inay Inayan Eskrima "No awan iti DAYAW ti Arte, ngem adda laeng iti pretentado ti labanan wenno bakbakan." Mike Inay 1944-2000 ------------------------------ From: Scytale Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 11:55:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Divert your course > Divert Your Course > > This is the actual radio conversation of a US naval ship with > Canadian authorities off the coast of Newfoundland in October > 1995. Radio conversation released by the chief of naval > operations, 10-10-95. Although this is an urban legend (see this page: http://www.urbanlegends.com/misc/lighthouse_tins.html), it certainly is indicative of human behavior. It seems like when we think we know something, or are very confident in that area, we are the least able to learn anything new about it or consider possibilities outside of our experience. So maybe it's good that I get humbled often. Have any folks here gone the route of slowly progressing from drill to free sparring rather than jumping right into the sparring? In other words, have you taken sombrada patterns and slowly added freedom to parts of it (the second attack may be a #1 or a horizontal slash at the feeder's choice, etc) until there is no pattern left. I'm wondering about the effectiveness of this rather than just jumping into free sparring right from the patterned drills. Which do you think would be the most effective, both in terms of bringing a guy up to sparring speed in minimal time, and which could produce a better fighter given lots of time? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Eli Silva Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 14:10:19 -0500 Subject: eskrima: kali and bad movies In response to Bad Movies showing Bad Kali/Arnis: The juxtaposition of both the film and FMA is degraded thru commericalization. First and foremost, MA & filmaking are both forms of serious art only to be relegated into an "entertainment" realm. In this world of commercialism, it is tragic to say that this is the most "revered" medium in which the general consensus of people can relate to and refer to. As both an artist (painter) and an practitioner of MA, I am saddened that the "ART" behind both is being diluted through popular culture. Of course, it is needless to say that money makes the world go round, but it shouldn't be the sole inspiration of both "arts" inorder to thrive. I am aware that it is thru commercialization that even a legitimate art as Kali & JKD, it is still contigent on the promotion of each thru it. Bruce's art of Jeet Kune Do would not be as famous as it is without, of course, the meteoric rise of Lee in the movies. In parallel to the martial arts, the fine arts have always shy herself from too much commericialization and media but couldn't survive without it. The Pop culture in painting and fine arts division have blurred and blended into each other's domain that it is hard to see which one now drives the other. But Fine arts painting is strong and have been documented way before the modern commercialization. It is also tragic to see how people are so gullible that they buy into the "entertainment" of watching MA and the movies, whereas long ago, MA and Filmaking were being followed because of this medium of expression per se. The general convention is that people will dismiss "Movies" as form of entertainment and therefore it is "OK" that they see crapola on the silver screen. The end is that they are "entertained" and the purity and integrity of the arts is therefore of secondary nature; seeing a carefully choreographed Steven Segal move who can gracefully decimate a dozen attackers simultaneously is "awesome" enough that whether it is believable or not is also of second nature. In conclusion, The movies, specially nowadays, is a vehicle of profiteering and therefore should not be regarded as the carrier of truth. Sadly, it is used also as a medium of communication and of great influencer in our commerical-natured modern living while gullible movie watchers, though intelligent, are gullible to be part of the wheel of capitalization. Art has been blurred with money making and vice versa. That is why it is a joy to watch and see legitimate Martial artists and Visual artists (all creative creatures) to thrive and remain true despite the temptation of money and the media. It is the greatest challenge also of artists nowadays to find creative ways of promoting their arts without being succumbed into this quagmire. Kali and filmaking are both legitimate forms or art that does not need any agencies inorder to foster the growth of the discipline. It is only from outside pressure of making money inorder to capitalize the movement within this commericial world. Peace, Eulalio Silva ------------------------------ From: Kes41355@aol.com Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 20:37:26 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: other weapons In a message dated 7/17/01 10:13:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << I have heard that some FMAs employ the 'panyo' (hankerchief), 'malong' (a clothing apparel), 'lubid' (rope), 'latigo' (whip), and 'buntot page' (tail of a manta/sting ray) - in that order - being taught to very advanced students in kali after they master the stick/knife/pangamot concepts/principles. Iwould like to respectfully solicit any comments on this as I have recently discovered that a friend's deceased maternal grandfather kept a 'buntot page' in their bedroom when he was still alive (...the 'buntot page' was later found in a wooden trunk but mysteriously disappeared - my friend suspects that one of his uncles who are 'latigo' specialists had a hand in its disappearance). Thank you very much. Kali! Kenjo >> Hi Kenjo, We were introduced at an early age (I'm a Serrada man) that many players were fond of carrying a handkerchief with a couple of pesos tied into a corner, which was used as a weapon (flipped into the attacker's face, etc). A guy with a bandana hanging out of his pocket could hardly be stopped by a LEO for carrying a concealed weapon, yet it comes in very handy in a sticky situation for it's surprise value. Kim ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 18:52:33 PDT Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #322 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.