From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #325 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Thur, 19 July 2001 Vol 08 : Num 325 In this issue: eskrima: TITLES eskrima: Judo Gene eskrima: Swords? eskrima: Re: Me Too, the Datu thing eskrima: Summer 2001 Surprise Quickie Mini Dog Brothers' Gathering eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1300 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000), Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Christopher Nelson" Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 20:02:42 -0500 Subject: eskrima: TITLES Greetings, I think that Mr. Hudgins asks an interesting question, and I would like to add my two cents worth. I'm fairly new to the list, and I have no intention to provoke or insult anyone. Although I've become involved with JKD, I have much more experience with Aikido. I'm also an anthropologist working on Japan (specifically Okinawa). I can't speak for Chinese or Filipino usage, but there is a pretty clear distinction in Japanese culture between qualifications and terms of respect. For example, you could mention that you had earned a "ni dan" in a particular art; however you would never refer to yourself as "sensei." The term "ni dan" indicates a level of proficiency that you have demonstrated; the term "sensei" is one of respect, and would only be used with reference to others. I have never heard anyone in Japan, be it martial artist, professor, respected neighbor or whoever, refer to themself as "sensei." At the same time, you wouldn't refer to yourself as "ni dan" either (Hi, I'm ni-dan soandso). In the end, it presents you with a bit of a problem if you want to advertise your qualifications. However, there is a (of course) an old Japanese saying to cover this. In speaking of a stalk of rice, it's said that "the heaviest head hangs down the most." In other words, the person with the most qualifications is the most humble. I think that there are some parallels to this in America. When I was in the Marines, the officers that I found most impressive never referred to themselves as "Captain Soandso" when they were introduced. After all, you knew who they were anyway (if you didn't, that was a different problem) and there was a sense that it was somehow bad form if they had to say it. The same is true for personal decorations and awards. Everyone had stories about the highly decorated old Marines who only wore their good conduct ribbons. I guess that this has gotten a little off track, but I hope that it adds something (non-flaming) to the discussion. Chris Nelson _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Dave Huang" Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 04:39:50 Subject: eskrima: Judo Gene I just got a chance to train with Sensei Gene LeBell about a month or so ago. Anyone who has a chance to train with this legend should take it. He and Gokor have some interesting applications for stick grappling which would benefit Filipino Martial Artists greatly. He has a lot of great stories, and can still put on the hurt. And yes, he still wears the pink gi. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: "Hutchins, Jamie" Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 05:57:06 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Swords? I've often heard and read that using a sword as part of ones FMA training really adds to the overall understanding of techniques and their applications. I can obviously see how this would be as it is not too hard to visualise using a bladed weapon and the impact it would have with certain moves. My question to ED members is concerning how one goes about choosing a sword to train with? I imagine in the days when people carried these regularly you would basically go with the best sword you could afford, one that suited your style of fencing, try it out to see if it felt good and also chose from amongst those available in your country... to some extent these limitations do not exist anymore and therefore I feel that I could do with a little advice. Also it doesn't seem likely that I will get to try one out before buying it as mail order seems the most likely way of acquiring one. I've often used a wooden imitation and I think it is very useful for the kind of training I do on a fairly regular basis. However just say that I wanted something a bit more realistic? I really enjoy using one of Edges2's aluminium knives and I notice that there is a range of swords too but which one? 1) Kris 2) Barong 3) Gununting 4) Pinuti 5) Cebuano Espada 6) Zanzibar other options: 7) Kampilan 8) Large bolo I also notice that all of the examples of these swords that I've seen do not seem to have guards at the hilt, is this purely a European thing? I'm quite fascinated with swords but have to admit my knowledge is limited and the advantages/disadvantages are not apparent to me so I'd be grateful for any help. Thanks, Jamie ------------------------------ From: "Lamont Norshadow" Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 14:08:49 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re: Me Too, the Datu thing > From: "jose saguisabal" > Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 20:09:36 -0700 > Subject: eskrima: Me too... > > Since we started the "Datu" thing back up... > > I think the reason many Filipinos take offense to the title of "Datu" > being used by martial artists (including GM Remy Presas, who does not > use the title himself--wonder why?) is that it may appear that those > who use it do so to lead misinformed people that it is an authentic > FMA title. > > Add the fact that one influential Filipino Master who claims to have > "revolutionized" the art (by promoting new "experts" by the dozens, > and simplifying the requirements for advanced levels), who could blame > Filipinos for jumping anytime some aspect of our culture is > misrepresented? My instructor has very strong feelings about meeting > someone who has the same amount of time as his younger siblings (who > are still teenagers), yet claim titles and ranks way above his own, > simple title ("Kuya", or "older brother")--and he's got 21 years! I > met a visiting instructor to my area last Christmas who was reluctant > to tell me much about his own training, until I informed him that my > limited training did not involve videos or seminars, or well known > instructors for that matter. His gripe was the same: Filipinos who > teach anyone and pass on rank quickly for few requirements; and > students who don't want to invest time and work for their information > and rank. > > When we have Masters who studied 5-10 years before even being > recognized as simply "teacher", the "Datu" thing is just a reminder > that there are those who can achieve similar status without investing > the same amount of pain and dedication. > > Jay > ------------------------------ That is a very powerful and eloquent statement, Jay. I think that you have added more sound reasoning against using the title out of a cultural context and within the martial arts. We already have masters and grand masters. There really is not a need for more titles. Thanks for your imput. Lamont > > From: Brandon Tapps > Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 21:10:43 -0700 (PDT) > Subject: eskrima: More datu replys > > Paul O'Grady Wrote: > > >Mr. Westbrook, my father has been disgruntled since > >the catholic church stopped saying mass in Latin. How > >do you think he would feel about the "Archbishop" > >thing. Is that a joke or an insult ? > > Ernest replied: > > Damned if I would know, Mr. O'Grady. I have never > spoken > to your father. And I can assure you that the title > is > no more a joke than other title bestowed by MA masters > and grand masters, including M.Sc. and Ph.D. > > ArchBishop EBrook > 2nd Chief Teacher - Surge Eskrima USA > THE Wicked Warlock of the West > > Dear Mr. Westbrook, > > You claim that your disagreements with Mr. Hartman are > along the line of cultural sensitivity. I am merely > pointing out that you are engaging in your own brand > of insensitivity. > > Personally, I take it as a joke. My father and many > others I know would not. Please try to be consistent. > > I will take your advice and stop reading your posts. > This is also the last post I will make on the matter. > > > Paul O'Grady Gee whiz, Paul, you opened yourself to that kind of reply by introducing your father into the discussion. I read EBrook's reply as a sarcastic play on words, without being disrespectful to your father. You stated that Tim Hartman, wrote someting as a joke and now it seems to me, the tables have been turned and you are angry when your idea is countered by a very clever tongue in cheek comment. I also noticed that you did not answer the questions that were posed by EBrook. I was looking forward to your reply. Oh well, it is time to go back into lurking mode and just read. Lamont ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 14:37:51 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Summer 2001 Surprise Quickie Mini Dog Brothers' Gathering A Howl of Greeting to All: On behalf of Dog Brothers Inc. Martial Arts I am please to extend an invitation to the "Summer 2001Surprise Quickie Mini Dog Brother Gathering" which will be held on Sunday July 29th at 12:30 PM at Rico Ciaparelli's RAW Training Gym in El Segundo, CA. For a map to help you find the new location go to our website at www.dogbrothers.com and follow the yellow brick road to our Training Camp and click on the "Directions and Lodging" page. PLEASE NOTE THAT THERE WILL BE SEVERAL IMPORTANT DIFFERENCES IN THE WAY OF DOING THINGS FROM THE HERMOSA BEACH PARK LOCATION. 1) . The RAW Gym must maintain cordial relations with its neighbors (this includes the matter of not parking in neighboring businesses' spaces) as well as the local authorities and thus ATTENDANCE MUST BE LIMITED. Even though it is a Sunday, parking in the area is limited. Please make every effort to car pool and allot some time to find a parking space on the street. Even if you have driven from North Nowhere, if the place is full the door may be closed in your face. No hard feelings please! If things work out, this may become a new site for Gatherings. As always your cooperation is vital. 2) I have always appreciated the expressions of thanks from the many thoughtful ones amongst you for holding the Dog Brothers Gatherings all these years for free. But now that we are going indoors on private property, there is the new additional cost of the location itself. Thus I must reluctantly announce that there must be a donation of $10 to cover the costs of the facility. 3) Please understand that this event is but one part of our Training Camp. Doors to the public will open no sooner than noon, the fighting will start at 12:30 sharp and to make way for the Closing Session of the Training Camp, we will need to ask people to depart promptly when the fighting is done. Many attendees of the Camp have flights to catch and we cannot drag things out. Your cooperation will be appreciated. 4) Know that due to the last minute nature of this invitation, we have no idea how many fighters will be coming. As always, FIGHTERS MUST MUST MUST PRE-REGISTER!!! THE FIGHTERS WILL NOT BE ASKED A DONATION.Know that there may well be additional risks to fighting indoors. This applies to you in the audience as well. The "No Suing No One etc" liability waiver applies to you in the audience as well. FIGHTERS SHOULD BE SURE TO BE THERE AS THE DOORS OPEN SO THAT THEY ARE READY TO FIGHT WHEN THE FIGHTING BEGINS. THE MAGIC WORDS: "No judges, no referees, no trophies. One rule only: Be Friends at the end of the day. This means that our goal is that no one spends the night in the hospital and that everyone leaves with the IQ with which they came. However, only you are responsible for you. NO SUING NO ONE FOR NO REASON FOR NOTHING NO HOW NO WAY. As always, ABSOLUTELY NO VIDEO CAMERAS, and if you take fotos, you agree to send us a set of what you took for our use. All video copyrights etc belong to DBIMA." Woof, CRAFTY DOG Guiding Force of the Dog Brothers President Dog Brothers Inc. Martial Arts ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 19:00:34 PDT Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #325 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.