From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #326 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Fri, 20 July 2001 Vol 08 : Num 326 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #325 eskrima: Datu matterss, BillyJa and Paul O'Grady eskrima: The MOTTs and Chuck Gauss eskrima: --Houston Eskrima Instructors-- eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #325 eskrima: talking eskrima ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1300 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000), Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. 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To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Magdainst@aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 02:29:23 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #325 SILAT-KALI-JKD 2nd Annual Summer Training Camp with Guro Cass Magda at The Magda Institute FOUR FULL DAYS August 16-19, 2001 - - Train in the explosive action of Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do - - Learn the devastating art of Filipino Kali - - Experience the unforgiving intensity of Indonesian Pentjak Silat - - The MAJOR FOCUS will be on Silat and Kali knife - - Open to all skill levels - - Camp diploma/certificate awarded at the end of training. Pre-Registration fee: $275 USD / $100 Minimum Deposit Pay per day fee: $100 USD After JULY 30,2001: $350 USD *(Fee does not include lodging. See VISTOR'S GUIDE on website or Call.)* Group Discount: 5 applicants registered = 5th goes FREE! *Registration fee of $275 must be received or postmarked no later than July 30th. Any applications postmarked after deadline will require additional $75 due upon arrival at camp. *Since size of school is limited -Registrations will be accepted on a first come first served basis. Once camp is full your check will be returned. Do not be disappointed so register early! To register send certified check or money order to: Magda Institute 7255 Canby Ave. Reseda, CA 91335 Phone: (818) 342-2455 Fax: (818) 363-0729 E-mail: cassmagda@yahoo.com VISA/MASTERCARD accepted: Call or send 1)card type, 2)card #, 3)4-digit expiration date, 4)name(as it appears on card), and if mailed signature authorizing the amount ($275 or $350) to Magda Institute. ***Please wear comfortable clothing for summer type training. Bring boxing gloves, mouthpiece, groin cup, shin-guards, bag gloves, 1 pair sticks(28"), and training dagger. Equipment will be available for purchase at camp. ***No audio or video recording will be permitted.*** Camp Times: Thursday: Friday: 10:00am - 12:30am Train 10:00am - 12:30am Train 12:30am - 2:30pm Break 12:30am - 2:30pm Break 2:30pm - 5:00pm Train 2:30pm - 5:00pm Train Saturday: Sunday: 10:00am - 12:30am Train 10:00am - 12:30am Train 12:30am - 2:30pm Break 12:30am - 2:30pm Break ------------------------------ From: "Ernest Westbrook" Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 12:40:24 +0000 Subject: eskrima: Datu matterss, BillyJa and Paul O'Grady BillyJa695@aol.com, wrote: >In a message dated 7/17/01 9:27:17 PM, Mr. Westbrook wrote the following: > > >Actually after all that I had read and more importantly, > >Not Read, I wouldn't consider training with the "motts"! > >But that is another matter, for another post... maybe, > >maybe not. > >Do you want to explain why you wouldn't consider training with the MOTTS ? No! As far as I can determine, none of them are on the ED and if any of them would like to know the answer to your question they can write me privately. >For what it's worth, I have seen them in action. I particularly think >that >Chuck Gauss, Ken Smith, and Dr. Randi Schea are impressive >martial artists >and excellent teachers as well. I think that it's a >shame that there has >been a distinct lack of disrespect toward the >MOTTs. I am gurssing that you meant to write '...a ditinct lack of respect'. If so, then I can only say, that can of worms was not opened by me. As the thread devloped, I arrived at a distinct conclusion based on what was written by a friend of yours. >------------------------------ mandirigmanews@lycos.com, wrote: >Since we started the "Datu" thing back up... > >I think the reason many Filipinos take offense to the title of "Datu" > >being used by martial artists (including GM Remy Presas, who does not > >use the title himself--wonder why?) is that it may appear that those >who >use it do so to lead misinformed people that it is an authentic >FMA title. Jay, I have to say that you have raised a very good question. >Add the fact that one influential Filipino Master who claims to have > >"revolutionized" the art (by promoting new "experts" by the dozens, >and >simplifying the requirements for advanced levels), who could >blame >Filipinos for jumping anytime some aspect of our culture is > >misrepresented? My instructor has very strong feelings about meeting > >someone who has the same amount of time as his younger siblings (who >are >still teenagers), yet claim titles and ranks way above his own, >simple >title ("Kuya", or "older brother")--and he's got 21 years! I >met a >visiting instructor to my area last Christmas who was reluctant >to tell me >much about his own training, until I informed him that my >limited training >did not involve videos or seminars, or well known >instructors for that >matter. His gripe was the same: Filipinos who >teach anyone and pass on >rank quickly for few requirements; and >students who don't want to invest >time and work for their information >and rank. Wow! Now I undrestand the private email that I received this morning. The writer confused your post with something that I wrote a couple of days earlier and accused me of refering to his instructor as an "instant master". I never used that phrase. >------------------------------ tapps2112@yahoo.com, wrote: >Paul O'Grady Wrote: > > >Mr. Westbrook, my father has been disgruntled since > >the catholic church stopped saying mass in Latin. How > >do you think he would feel about the "Archbishop" > >thing. Is that a joke or an insult ? > >Ernest replied: > >Damned if I would know, Mr. O'Grady. I have never >spoken to your father. And I can assure you that the title >is no more a joke than other title bestowed by MA masters >and grand masters, including M.Sc. and Ph.D. > >Dear Mr. Westbrook, > >You claim that your disagreements with Mr. Hartman are >along the line of cultural sensitivity. I am merely >pointing out that you are engaging in your own brand >of insensitivity. > >Personally, I take it as a joke. My father and many >others I know would not. Please try to be consistent. Hmmm... could this be similar to how some Filipinos might feel about a martial artist using the datu title? Isn't this a "cultural consideration"? I would suspect that some Filipino Catholics might not be pleased with my title, either! It was given to me by my Filipino GM, so it is clearly ok for me to use it, given the wxample and arguements as developed by Mr. Hartman and his associates, like yourself! You introduced the item and your father into the discussion, not I. If you thought it was a joke, you should have said so and left your father out of the discussion. >I will take your advice and stop reading your posts. >This is also the last post I will make on the matter. >Paul O'Grady Ok! This is very likely going to be next to my last post on the matter as well. BTW, would you be so kind as to answer the questions that I asked you? There seems to be a trend with the Hartman supporters, they never answer questions. ArchBishop EBrook 2nd Chief Instructor - Surge Eskrima USA The Wicked Warlock of the West _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: "Ernest Westbrook" Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 13:00:31 +0000 Subject: eskrima: The MOTTs and Chuck Gauss wnyima@hotmail.com >Subject: eskrima: The MOTTs, The Renegade & Chuck > >I would like to say after everything I said about the IMAF steering >board >I still consider some are still my friends! The Modern Arnis >world is a >family. Sometimes dysfunctional, but a family never the >less. Mr. Hartman, i wish that you had made this kind of statement earlier. >I would like to say that of all of the MOTTs I think that Chuck Guass >is >the best of the group. In addition to being a good martial artist >he is >also a cop, this gives him an opportunity to apply the material >he learns. Thanks for the clarification and distintion. (Snipped a Paragraph) >My problem is how the MOTTs where picked. I feel that not all the >members >got in on there own merit. Taking myself out of the mix there >are more 5th >degrees out there and have been for some time. Some of >which are more >active than the MOTTs. I can understand this point and it is a fair one to raise for considerstion and discussion, but more properly within "the family". You vented and di your thinking later. >I think that everyone needs to find there own truth. You need to >train >with the MOTTs before condemning them. If you do then I suggest >Chuck. >This does not mean I think the others suck, I just think the >Chuck has the >most to offer. I appriciate this new bit of information. ArchBishop EBrook 2nd Chief Teacher - Surge Eskrima USA THE Wicked Warlock of the West _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: ECampbell@HHSI.COM Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 11:28:06 -0500 Subject: eskrima: --Houston Eskrima Instructors-- - --Does anyone know of any eskrima teachers in Houston Tx. I have lived here for 10 yrs but have found none in the Directory. There was once a Mousels Academy that taught ..Muay Thai, Grappling, Kali, J.K.D. but the listing can no longer be found. My Muay Thai instructor for 10yrs knows of none himself. Salamat for your tim........ Peace and Love E r i c " E~M a n " C a m p b e l l ......M u a y T h a i ....... Heritage Physicians Network ------------------------------ From: "Michael Milazzo" Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 14:39:44 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #325 >>You claim that your disagreements with Mr. Hartman are >>along the line of cultural sensitivity. I am merely >>pointing out that you are engaging in your own brand >>of insensitivity. >> >>Personally, I take it as a joke. My father and many >>others I know would not. Please try to be consistent. >> >>I will take your advice and stop reading your posts. >>This is also the last post I will make on the matter. >> >> >>Paul O'Grady >Gee whiz, Paul, you opened yourself to that kind of reply >by introducing your father into the discussion. I read EBrook's reply as a >sarcastic play on words, without >being disrespectful to your father. You stated that Tim >Hartman, wrote someting as a joke and now it seems to me, >the tables have been turned and you are angry when your >idea is countered by a very clever tongue in cheek comment. >I also noticed that you did not answer the questions that were >posed by EBrook. I was looking forward to your reply. >Oh well, it is time to go back into lurking mode and just read. >Lamont All Paul was doing was simply explaining what he meant by his statements... there wasn't a bit of anger in his response whatsoever. I think that many people read too far into what's posted on this digest. He even states in his post that he took it as a JOKE. Geez. Mike Milazzo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 12:40:19 PDT Subject: eskrima: talking eskrima Geez folks, can't we get off this Datu thing, yet again. Surely there is something else FMA related that this list can occupy itself with other than the appropriate/unappropriate use of titles. Howz this? Why is it that Crafty hits like a girl? :) Maybe that will liven things up a bit w/o having to stoop down to the datu thing again. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #326 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.