From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #342 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Tues, 31 July 2001 Vol 08 : Num 342 In this issue: eskrima: Kubotan eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #340 eskrima: Reply to Animal's post eskrima: Lapu Lapu T-shirt eskrima: re: Kuntaw/Kuntao Bashing eskrima: Dr. Maung Gyi eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #341 eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1400 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000), Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "BILL MCGRATH" Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 21:44:39 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Kubotan Brian asked: "Has anyone ever translated techniques from reverse grip knife fighting to a kubotan or other palm stick-like weapon? The techniques I saw for the kubotan appear to be more of a trapping/pain compliance method rather than an actual attacking method. Can anyone comment on using a kubotan-like weapon beyond the basic "trap the wrist" methods commonly associated with this weapon." In my knife classes I teach three sets of 12 attacks. 12 attacks in hammer grip, 12 in icepick (reverse) grip and 12 with the folding knife in a closed position (used as a palmstick or kubotan). I like to show the techniques as a progression from hand vs knife, then closed pocket knife vs knife, then knife vs knife. The idea is to train the same gross motion and modify it just enough to fit the weapon being used. My next hand vs. knife seminar will be August 25 & 26 in Easthampton, MA. Call Ernie Lagerge at:(413) 527-7027 for more info. Two excellent sources for techniques for palmstick (though they are not advertised as such) are Guro Inosato's Panantukan video and Guro Rick Faye's book on the same subject. Anyone with even a little experience in FMA empty hand and knife work should have no trouble translating the moves from Panantukan to palmstick/kubotan. Guro Inosanto can be reached at: bbiama@aol.com Guro Faye can be reached at: mnkali@aol.com Regards, Tuhon Bill McGrath Visit the PTI web site at: http://www.pekiti-tirsia.com/index.html ------------------------------ From: "jose saguisabal" Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 19:01:31 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #340 Jay De Leon asked "And maybe the other kuntao practitioners (my good friend Jay Saguisabal and others?) can educate us on their styles." I couldn't say much about our Kuntaw style's history other than it was a family style that skipped a generation because my instructor's uncles died, and his grandfather did not teach much to his mother and aunts. As far as the spelling, I am told the spelling means nothing, as most of the practitioners in the past were illiterate by Western standards. Think about it, prior to the establishment of public schools, very few Filipinos spoke English, let alone read it! We consider all the fuss over names, spelling, and who-created-what to be the ego driven fantasies of men who use their stories to convince others of their credibility as fighters and instructors. As they say, the proof is in the pudding. Lolo Gatdula (my instructor's instructor) said that if you got too old to fight challenge matches, you need a student who could do it on your behalf. Only a student who can prove your style's worth can determine if your style was any good in the first place. Those who don't have stro ng students need stories of youthful exploits and adventures in order to live out their fantasies late in life. Jonaleen posts: >Subject: eskrima: FMA teacher needed in Sacramento area There are many good instructors in the Sacramento area, but if you limit yourself to only what's close by, the pickings are going to be slim. I nominate Mustafa Gatdula and his Gatdula's Fighting Cobras. Several catches--he's expensive, you can't visit the class, and you can't come in asking when and what will you learn. But if you want a guy who will teach you to fight, GFC gets my vote. However, I am a *little* biased ;-). The school's website, which is under construction, is located at www.angelfire.com/co2/gatdula or you can call him 916-981-7627 And to answer those 30 or so requests for info about the newsletter: This is my second attempt to circulate an FMA newsletter with articles I would like to read. Month after month, I combed the magazines looking for articles about the FMAs. And month after month I was disappointed, after reading inaccurate information or how Master So N So won all of his "death matches", and created this great martial arts system that looks suspiciously like every other style I've seen. After speaking with several instructors and corresponding with many more, I tried to create a local, statewide newsletter. The newsletter grew faster than I could keep up, and now I'm at it again. I will send out the first few issues free while we sell ad space and obtain sponsorship, then the newsletter will be $1.50 an issue (payable annually). Right now, my goal is to get as many people to read it as possible. Our mailing list is over 400 people right now. If anyone has text-only articles you would like to have printed, please send them...We are running about three issues ahead. Our first issue will be sent out at the end of August. My goal is to eventually have the newsletter on-line as well. Thanks for your support, everyone (and Ms. J)! Jay Get 250 color business cards for FREE! http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/ ------------------------------ From: "jose saguisabal" Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 22:46:26 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Reply to Animal's post Animal, You said "Ummm folks...before you go too far into rewriting history take a look at a book called "Guns, Germs and Steel" by J Diamond. It will go miles to keep you from replacing a "euro-centric" viewpoint with another fill-in-the-blank-centric revisionist bit of history. It gives some damn hard to argue points about what it takes to make an advanced civilization...and they aren't what you think they would be either. From that starting point you can begin to see that yes, the world wasn't created by white people, but then again it wasn't invented soley by any other "one" group. " This was a response to my statement that the obviously African-descent "Negritos" and mix of Malays that were from "Negro slaves __brought__" to the region was an ethnocentric explanation for their presence. I stated that there was trade and trans-oceanic travel long before the arrival of Portuguese to the Philippine region. My question: are you disputing my statement? Or were you simply trying to cast doubt on the notion that African travel is explained as being "brought" via the Slave trade? Or are you denying that using such explanations are ethnocentric? It is obvious that you disagree with my statement...what about it do you disagree with? Pre colonial African travel is not "another fill-in-the-blank-centric revisionist bit of history", as you so colorfully put it. Perhaps you could bless us with what J Diamond has to say about that. Any anthropologist (except for a South African one) would support my statement. It seems you don't. What gets me is anti-political correctness and the defensive attitude many people take when Eurocentric history is challenged. Instead of challenging the fact at hand, it seems like some folks prefer to soft shoe around the subject and make it look like one is guilty of the same ethnocentrism in order to make up for what happened in the past. We are all educated men: support your (however soft) suggestion that i was guilty of the same bias. By the way, as a Filipino, I have no reason to be partial to African advances. So we can put to rest that idea right now. Jay Get 250 color business cards for FREE! http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/ ------------------------------ From: "C. Herrman" Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 01:11:32 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Lapu Lapu T-shirt Hello, A friend of mine asked me to spread the word about his t-shirt design now available at www.pinoymall.com. It's a very cool, stylized illustration of Lapu Lapu screen printed on a black t-shirt. >---ART BY IAN TOLEDO--- "Lapu-Lapu" Shirt in black.... http://pinoymall.com/showproduct.asp?prodID=8541 Pinoymall has some other products which may be of interest - including the "Great Pinoy Boxers" Video. Cheers, Chris H. ------------------------------ From: "Anderson" Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 18:54:07 +1000 Subject: eskrima: re: Kuntaw/Kuntao Bashing In defense of what has been posted concerning Buzz's history of Lanada Kuntaw.. I come from the same lineage of Lanada Kuntaw, although I was trained in the Pampanga region by Master Conrado Turla (Kyud Lito's representative for central Luzon) back in the 70's.. I was told the same thing and it was written in several of the martial arts magazines from the late 70's early 80's by senior practitioners of the system who were training with Kyud Lito in Olangapo at the time. When I have the ability to do so, I go to the source of the art, (GM and senior students) I was able to confirm the same thing as what Buzz has been taking heat on recent digests.. I also have talked to several instructors from other systems who know Kyud Lanada and the time prior to Martial Law... I will climb off of my soapbox now and let this conversation die a natural death as I feel that it has gone on too long and it is time to move on to another topic. Just my .02 pesos Bill Maharlika Kuntao Guam ------------------------------ From: "Mike aka Shugendo" Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 12:18:50 +0000 Subject: eskrima: Dr. Maung Gyi Over the last several months it has been brought to my attention that there are some SERIOUS questions about Dr. Gyi's military and academic background. After discussing these issues with a number of people I have found that their misgivings are valid. From inconsistencies with rank, divisions and locations, to personal anecdotes that EXACTLY mirror movies plots Dr. Gyi has woven a web of ficion that has entangled numerous people. While I have enjoyed training with Dr. Gyi and have a healthy respect for his abilities, I am greatly distressed by the efforts he has made to misguide the martial arts, military and law enforcement community. I can only hope that he will preserve what is left of his good name and make a full accounting of this situation. Michael A. Krivka @ Martial Arts Koncepts Home Page: http://www.martialartskoncepts.com Email: shugendo@hotmail.com or koncepts@bellatlantic.net Phone: 301/963-6520 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: rich parsons Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 06:39:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #341 I would like to reply to a comment about information and its' availability. > > From: "Ernest Westbrook" > Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 19:04:36 +0000 > Subject: eskrima: Re: Kuntaw Bashing > > >From: Brian "\"BUZZ\"" Smith > >Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 21:31:40 -0400 > >Subject: eskrima: Kuntaw bashing > > . . . >I was "TOLD" that one of the original names for the Philippine >Archipelago was the "Maharlikas" and that it denoted original, or >royal, having honor. As a college trained person, in an American University, it would seem to me that you would have check out the information with another source or two before accepting the statement and reproducing it as fact. That happens all too often within the FMAs in this country... if my teacher said it, it must be the truth! . . . I was required to do a paper for a belt testing in FMA. I went to the local libraries. I went to the U of M Ann Arbor, Flint and Dearborn Libraries, I went to the Mich State U Libraries. What did I find? Nothing on FMA martial arts. If they were in the card catalog the books were missing. How did I find out as much information as I did. I searched for Dance and other arts for the Philippines. Even within these books there was contradictory information. Yet all published. Even recent books acclaimed on this list have incorrect information. To whom do you turn to, to believe about the history of a FMA. The logical solution would be to someone in the art, hopefully someone you trusted. Hopefully, someone who trained you. Some one who has lived or been taught the history himself. Just some thoughts from another University trained individual who has never had the privilege to be in the Philippines, and has had to read books and talk to people. Thank you for your time. Rich __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 7:21:39 PDT Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #342 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. 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