From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #421 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Fri, 21 Sept 2001 Vol 08 : Num 421 In this issue: eskrima: Masterhood in FMA?? eskrima: Bai "Flash" Elorde and Ali?? eskrima: suspected hijacker trained w/ knives eskrima: Re: profiling eskrima: Indonesia - Travel Warning eskrima: Ali & footwork eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1200 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 10:02:08 EDT Subject: eskrima: Masterhood in FMA?? Steve, Its took experience to be a Master of Filipino Martial Arts, at least in the Philippines. Outside the island, there so many, numerous maybe hundreds of them self proclaimed master of Filipino Martial Arts. Here are Filipino old saying "Bato bato sa langit ang tamaan ay huwag magagalit" (throwing stone to the sky if you got hit don't get mad). Steve, at least to our measurements of being a Master of Filipino Martial Arts, You need an instructors, teachers, guro, or master whom teaches you, or practiced with Filipino Martial Arts not only Theory, but Physically, meaning you need to learn the basic philosophy of the arts, and proved yourself by assimilation of techniques by way sparing, competition, or street real application of the arts to your own theory and application. In our place "in Laguna, Philippines" if you claimed to be master of the arts Arnis, Eskrima, Estokada or other type of Filipino Arts, the other masters will open challenge you to a friendly match so you are openly, to prove yourself, or just to learn your way of fighting, and study the counters to your arts. Every time they introduced new arts, new counters been developed, by others Eskrima, Arnis masters. After you passed those challenge and friendly matches, then you are called reputable master of the arts. Its hard to get that title that easy. Nowadays here in the US and other parts of the world, some masters attend only "few seminars" from respected master and later called themselves master of this arts, its take years and experienced, sweat and blood to earn that, and the other master and Grandmasters giving it cheap like so called Mc Donald business analyst, sell it cheap and result more sale lot of numbers. I understand some of the so called Grandmasters need to make a living, more master under him means more money to his pockets, I guess I have to separate the FMA for Business and FMA for real or we can put the two together. There also so many thousand of Filipino Arts Masters study here and there, all of sudden he came out with this Professor titles, claimed such experienced with lack of place and witness to proved its really exist or happened. I understand those old masters, whom teach the arts before Video and Martial arts magazines existence, I am referring to those masters, that tell and claimed story that no records or story never occurred even. Yet the claimed is bigger than his experience. Okay Steve, I will end this right here I assumed you understand right now, how to be called Filipino Masters, yes you need to practiced to a legit Masters of the arts, for a long period of time, practiced sparring padded or not padded as how many as you can to test your skills, and honed your hand eye coordination. Money might be part of it, but its all depend whom you are training with. Again, this opinion is come directly from me and no intention to throw a can of worm to no one. Gumagalang at Salamat (with respect and thanks), Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research Center USA << original post by Steve: Hello eskrimadors, I was wondering what the process is to be called a master in the FMA? Can you just call yourself one? Do you need to go through an accreditation process and if so what is involved? Regards, Steve. >> ------------------------------ From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 10:19:06 EDT Subject: eskrima: Bai "Flash" Elorde and Ali?? This piece of History of Ali is happened During the Thrilla in Manila on mid 1970's. Mohammad Ali train in San Lazaro's Flash Elorde's Boxing Gym. On 1978 I went over there with Willy Annang Prefessor Remy Presas right hands, becaused Elorde and Annang is both born in the same town in Visayan Island. He called him Bai "Flash" Elorde or openly called "Champ". I dont know if still there, they have a big poster picture togetehr in the Elorde's Boxing Gym. I hope it help a little, to what your expecting info. Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet >>Original Post: << Actually, the Filipino fighter that had a tremendous influence on Ali, particularly his footwork, was the boxer "Flash" Elorde (please correct my spelling, I know it isn't correct). Flash's influence on Ali's footwork was his circling pattern, always moving away from the power hand. This is evident in the way most FMA's I've seen tend to move to the zero pressure zone on the first beat. I am also a boxer, and the story of Ali's footwork being influenced by a Filipino champion is well-known in boxing circles. I have even seen pictures of Ali and Elorde together; I understand that they were great friends, and that Ali held Flash in the highest regard. >> ------------------------------ From: aurera@juno.com Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 15:01:54 GMT Subject: eskrima: suspected hijacker trained w/ knives >I just heard from someone, who saw something on the news, that these terrorists >actually took martial arts classes and read some of the books . . .any of >you guys know something about that? There is an article from CNN which describes one suspected hijacker had trained at Florida gym. Here's the link: http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/19/inv.fbi.gym/ Regards, Ariel ------------------------------ From: "Jesse [IHF] Greenawalt" Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 11:19:48 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re: profiling From: Luis Pellicer III >>I guess Hitler's ideology hasn't gone away. Maybe we should disarm all >Germans in case of another Holocaust. >> >>We should punish all Black people for OJ's crime. I mean how can you tell who will be next? >> >I think the situation here is a little different. It seems that the >terrorist MO is to blend in until they are called upon. These aren't overt >hostiles or random acts of violence which are dictated by individual >chance, there is SPECIFIC intent by a largely UNKNOWN enemy. They could be >living right next door to you and you wouldn't know it. It brings up the >unpleasant situation where your friend one day, will be willing to blow you >and your family up the next. It seems to have been worked out that way. >Due to lack of controls, they ARE in, whether anybody likes it or not. They >make the system work FOR them, knowing the bitching that will be going on >regarding civil liberties. In the mean time thier support systems continue, >hiding behind that which they look to eventually destroy. >The system has failed with regards to identification. Now the only solution >may be to profile and do some weeding (unpleasant as it may be), or go on >our way, hoping that no one who is already in will try and pull the same >thing. Or worse.....and hope that we catch them on time. This would be counter to what many Americans fought and died for over many, many years. Freedom of religion, press, and other expression. Not to belittle the tragedy, but the cost of 10,000 lives should not allow us to give up what MANY times that have fought and died for. You want McCarthyism again? Internment of Americans on American soil? Let's not repeat the tragedies of America's past. I can't get over the likelihood that if there were a few good citizens with handguns on the flights, they may not have ended as they did. Yet the government has chosen to go the other way. Still, my bet is that it will be years before anyone succeeds in hijacking a big plane again. Everyone is responsible for the maintenence of freedom, and taking away others' freedom is not the answer. >In an analogy, if confronted by a knife weilding drug addict who sees you >as the source of his next score, and doesn't want a witness, what do you >do? Do you relate to him and sympathize with the fact that he came from a >broken home, that his parents didn't love him, that he was stigmatized from >birth without a real fighting chance to succeed in life, and that he >doesn't have the resources to see a good therapist to sort his head out? >All while he's in the process of gutting you? Terrible analogy. In this case, you already have A,O, and J. All you need is P. You don't have that in profiling beforehand. >Or do you blow his ass away as quickly as you can to save yourself. Then >get involved with your community to prevent these people from victimizing >anyone else in the medium term, and look to prevent them from ever getting >to thier sorry state in the long term. Which includes rehabilitation AND >prevention. >Personally, I prefer to be higher up on the food chain, and would choose >the latter option. Just my thoughts. Sure, but for your analogy to match, you'd also have to ship all the teenagers with spiky hair or pierced bellybuttons out of town.... jester ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 9:12:31 PDT Subject: eskrima: Indonesia - Travel Warning Forwarded message: Indonesia - Travel Warning September 20, 2001 The Department of State urges American citizens to defer nonessential travel to Indonesia and all travel to Aceh, Maluku, Papua, West Timor, Central and West Kalimantan (Borneo) and Central Sulawesi. Those who must travel to Indonesia, or who are resident there, should exercise extreme caution. The September 11 terrorist attacks in the United States heighten the need for vigilance on the part of American citizens resident in or traveling through Indonesia. While the Government of Indonesia has condemned these terrorist attacks, some radical Indonesian groups have threatened to attack U.S. facilities and expel American citizens from Indonesia if the U.S. strikes any Muslim country in response to the September 11 terrorist attacks in the United States. All American citizens in Indonesia are urged to exercise maximum caution and take prudent measures. This includes maintaining a strong security posture by being aware of their surroundings, avoiding crowds and demonstrations, keeping a low profile, varying times and routes for all required travel and notifying the nearest U.S. Embassy or Consulate in case of any change in the local security situation. American citizens are also urged to treat mail and packages from unfamiliar sources with suspicion. The U.S. Embassy in Jakarta has received information that indicates extremist elements may be planning to target U.S. interests in Indonesia, particularly U.S. Government facilities, and could also extend to U.S. tourists and tour groups. In addition, social unrest and violence can erupt with little forewarning anywhere in the country. Bombings of religious, political and business targets have occurred throughout the country. Due to the continuing threat of serious violence, all travel should be avoided to the regions of Aceh, Maluku, West Timor, Central and West Kalimantan and Central Sulawesi. Further, all travel by U.S. and other foreign government officials to Aceh, Papua and the Moluccas (provinces of North Maluku and Maluku) has been restricted by the Indonesian government because of security concerns. Private Americans should adhere to these same restrictions. On occasion, the U.S. mission in Indonesia may have to suspend services to the public or close because of security concerns. In those situations, the Embassy will continue to be available by telephone to offer emergency services to American citizens. A massive bombing campaign struck churches throughout Indonesia on Christmas Eve 2000, leaving at least 16 dead and over one hundred injured. Bombings occurred in the cities of Medan, Pekanbaru, Batam, Bandung, Sukabumi, Bekasi, Jakarta, Mojokerto, Surabaya and Mataram. Bombings have also occurred over the past year at Indonesian government buildings, foreign diplomatic facilities and business and financial centers, including the Jakarta Stock Exchange. More explosive devices have been discovered in Jakarta since Christmas and there are indications that the bombings may continue. Some foreign travelers in troubled areas of Indonesia have been subject to arbitrary arrest, detention and deportation and, on at least one occasion, false accusations of espionage. In November 2000 in the central Java city of Solo, groups opposed to U.S. policy undertook or threatened "sweeps," trying to identify American citizens and order them to depart the country. There also have been a number of acts of intimidation and violence directed at American companies and U.S. diplomatic facilities. Indonesian security officials have sometimes been unwilling or unable to respond. The Abu Sayyaf terrorist group has been active throughout the islands in the extreme southwest Philippines, near Indonesia, and have kidnapped American citizens in the Philippines. American citizens traveling to the border regions in Northern Kalimantan and North Sulawesi, in particular the smaller islands closer to the Philippines, are urged to review their security procedures. Updated information on travel and security in Indonesia may be obtained from the U.S. Embassy in Jakarta by calling tel. (62)(21)3435-9000, or the Consulate General in Surabaya by calling tel. (62)(31) 567-2287/8. For further information, U.S. citizens are advised to consult the Department of State's Consular Information Sheet for Indonesia. The Consular Information Sheet is available at any U.S. embassy or consulate abroad and through the Department of State, Bureau of Consular Affairs Internet home page at http://travel.state.gov. This Travel Warning supersedes the August 10, 2001, Travel Warning for Indonesia to advise U.S. citizens of changes in the security situation in Indonesia. *********************************************************** See http://travel.state.gov/travel_warnings.html for State Department Travel Warnings ************************************************************ ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 10:25:59 PDT Subject: eskrima: Ali & footwork Seems like Ali's footwork was very similar to Sugar Ray Robinson's. ESPN Classic (cable) is great for being able to watch old fights... Workng my way back thru the years it would seem that Ali (winning the light heavy Olympic title in 1960) would have most likely been aware of Robinson's fights from the late 40s and early 50s. Not sure what Ali has had to say about all this, but if you watch Robinson's fights from the 40s and Ali/Clay's from the early 60s you see a fair similarity, at least to this uneducated (in boxing) eye. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 16:21:17 PDT Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #421 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.