From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #424 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Sun, 23 Sept 2001 Vol 08 : Num 424 In this issue: eskrima: Ali & Robinson Re: eskrima:the unbelievable II eskrima: master or no master eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #423 eskrima: FMA Instructors eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #423 eskrima: A parting thought eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #422 eskrima: Pentagon information eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1200 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Carey" Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 15:02:33 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Ali & Robinson "From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 10:25:59 PDT Subject: eskrima: Ali & footwork Seems like Ali's footwork was very similar to Sugar Ray Robinson's. ESPN Classic (cable) is great for being able to watch old fights... Workng my way back thru the years it would seem that Ali (winning the light heavy Olympic title in 1960) would have most likely been aware of Robinson's fights from the late 40s and early 50s. Not sure what Ali has had to say about all this, but if you watch Robinson's fights from the 40s and Ali/Clay's from the early 60s you see a fair similarity, at least to this uneducated (in boxing) eye." I cannot say what he thought about Robinson's footwork, but Ali did say in an interview that Robinson was the greatest boxer of all time. Michael ___________________________________________________________________________ Visit http://www.visto.com. Find out how companies are linking mobile users to the enterprise with Visto. ------------------------------ From: "Buz Grover" Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 19:55:18 -0400 Subject: Re: eskrima:the unbelievable II Rudolf replies to my post: >Reread my post, maybe a zillion times. Use your favorite editor, >try to find the word 'detainment' ! >I was talking about removing all arabs from safety critical education. >This is not politics, medicine, religion or philosophy. It's Biochemistry >and the like. As long as you can only say arabs did it, the right of arab's >being educated must stand behind the right of humans to be alive. >Reread my post again, maybe another zillion times. Use your favorite editor, >try to find the word 'Muslim'. I had a great time in Banda Aceh, Sumatra. >They have a beutiful Moschee. Again, reread my post. I said arabs, not >Muslims. I am an editor and one read of your post is enough: you want to use extra-constitutional means to hold people of a certain genealogy potentially culpable for the actions of a few. The quibble here is over the matter of degree. I am aware that all Muslims are not Arab. Alas many of the people going off half cocked don't know the difference between a Sunni, a Shiite, or a Sikh for that matter, and compound the recent tragedies by attacking people for all the wrong reasons including the way they are dressed. But that's what happens when you judge people by where they look like they're from rather than by what they've done, eh? Because of the area where I live and the nature of the academy I attend, I train with a lot of folks likely to be involved with America's response to these terrorist acts. I very much want to cross sticks, roll, spar, and hold pads for these folks again. Moreover, I'm raising three kids in an area likely to remain a high value terrorist target for the foreseeable future. As such I'm willing to contemplate a range of actions in response to these attacks. However, I don't see how dictating what folks of certain genealogies can study will achieve a desirable end. What, do we make folks show a passport and prove where their grandparents came from before we let them register for certain classes? Perhaps we limit what they can check out from the library? Do we assume all colleges will do the same and that the terrorists won't find a work around or do we admit that the only ones likely to be affected are those with no resources and few options? Not to long ago western democracies faced a foe that promised to hang us with a rope we sold them. That foe now rests on history's slag heap. Our current foe does not like our engines of commerce, is concerned by the effects of our freedom and culture, and hence seeks to minimize contacts between the west and the people it seeks to lead. When it boils right down to it, this foe has a tough sale to make: its rabid pieties, the deprivations it demands, the cloisters if forces its citizen in to just don't stack up well with western liberal democracies, for all their faults. I reiterate: let's not make our enemy's job easier by alienating the innocent Arabs living among us. Regards, Buz Grover ------------------------------ From: "LARRY ST. CLAIR" Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 20:13:00 -0700 Subject: eskrima: master or no master hey everyone, I would agree with ray on the master definition. Even before I wrote my feelings down I went to webster's just to get an objective view. But even past that I agree with others in this forum who have said that there are a lot of people who use the term all too easily. I think many form systems of their own and are then a grand master of their system. I myself teach several versions of FMA and other arts. I will teach each in their own right and then we have a system that we have put together that is a blend. But I by no means would call myself a grandmaster or master. Even on my cards I only list myself as head instructor at the school. I would agree that people are probably putting too much of an emphasis on master and not enough on guro. I personally don't care if you are a guro. If you got something I dont, then I'm coming to train with you so that maybe you can help me get better. I try to do the same with my students. At our school our tenents are... 1. cultivate your abilities 2. explore the possibilities 3. learn from others 4. find the truth 5. become unbiased and respectful Until next time continue sweating and looking. hope all is well, saint ------------------------------ From: Mike Casto Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 19:50:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #423 << hey gang, unfortunately(?) in a free society, people of all walks of life can practice and learn about what ever they want. >> Yes, this is true ... but, as instructors, is it not our responsibility to do our best *not* to put really dangerous material into the hands of people we don't know well and trust? My instructor, for instance, doesn't teach people how to use a knife until he has spent enough time with them to trust them with the material. He teaches some empty hand defenses against knife pretty early on ... but actually how to wield a knife, he doesn't teach until later. Not only does this give him time to get comfortable with the person's character, it gives him time to work on fundamentals (i.e.: footwork, timing, coordination, etc.) that they will need to build the knife work on when they get there. Personally, I think this makes sense and follow his lead. So, yes, I feel very fortunate that I live in a country where I can learn and share this material ... but even (especially?) here in the land of the free ... nothing is free :-) Even if money isn't changing hands, there's a price (in this case, it's a price of dedication and character). Mike ===== Mike Casto Asian Fighting Arts - Texas Representative Nacogdoches, Texas - --------------------------------- Asian Fighting Arts Lansdale's Self-Defense Martial Arts Seminar Listings Martial Arts Schools Database __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Gil Abalos Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 21:27:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: FMA Instructors Anyone on the list know of any FMA instructors in or around Charleston, South Carolina? I'll be transfering there for a year and would like to continue my training. Thanks! Gil __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Bladewerkrr@aol.com Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 00:33:15 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #423 In a message dated 9/22/01 3:28:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << I personally have always frowned on the term "master" in the martial arts. To me the term means that there is nothing more to learn. You have mastered something, so what is left. I truly believe that from the day we are born we learn things. Even all the way up till the day we die, we will still be learning. >> A good definition of "Master" was once given to me by an old Karate player named Ben Pryor, who attributed it to one of his teachers in Okinawa, although I forget which one. "A Master is a person that, through his dedication to his art has, much to his embarassment, the title added to his name." Bear ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 22:53:25 -0700 Subject: eskrima: A parting thought A Howl of Greeting to All: I accept that Ray has put out the word to leave The Attack alone for now. If I may run the yellow light? Lets summarize: FIRST: IF THE ATTACK HAD WORKED, 1) The White House (and possibly the President and the Vice President) would be ashes. President Who? 2) The Capitol Building (and possibly a goodly percentage of the members of the House of Representatives and of the Senate) would be ashes. 3) The thousands of soldiers who form the command the US military and their building the Pentagon would be ashes. 4) The World Trade Center could easily have had as many as 40,000 dead people in it . Ask yourself what things would be like at this moment if these things had happened. SECOND: "Whoops!" is no longer good enough. Whoops can mean weapons of mass destruction here. MORE ATTACKS ARE COMING, PROBABLY IN DIFFERENT FORMS, AND QUITE POSSIBLY CHEM, BIO, OR BOMB-IN-A-SUITCASE. Whether we show the character the British showed during the bombings of early WW2 or whether we kitty out is up to us. THIRD: ALL OF THE PEOPLE ALLIED IN THIS CAUSE ARE ISLAMIST (This term is NOT interchangeable with Muslim. All Islamists are Muslims, but only a minority of Muslims are Islamists) AND ALL ARE ARAB. FOURTH: THE CONSTITUTION IS NOT A SUICIDE PACT. WHETHER WE LIKE IT OR NOT, WE ARE IN A WAR. IN WAR THE RULES ARE DIFFERENT. So to all of you who jumped on our German friend, I invite you in your own thinking to offer solutions that will work. To help you get started, I offer the following: Protecting Muslims while Rooting out Islamists The Daily Telegraph (London) September 14, 2001 THAT the assault on New York's highest buildings and the American military headquarters appears to have been organized by Osama bin Laden and carried out exclusively by Muslims has large implications for the way Muslim populations living in all Western countries will be seen in the future. Knowing a bit of background helps to explain what brought us to this situation. Bin Laden's men are not just Muslims but also Islamists. Islam (a religion) is not the problem, but Islamism (a totalitarian ideology) is. Islamism is not so much a distortion of Islam, but a radically new interpretation. It politicizes the religion, turning it into a blueprint for establishing a coerced utopia. In many ways, its program resembles those of fascism and Marxism/Leninism. This week's events mark not the outbreak of a new problem but the heightening of a two-decade-long pattern of Islamist violence. That violence is a truly global phenomenon, affecting such varied countries as Algeria, Pakistan, Russia, Trinidad and Tobago, and the Philippines. Islamists constitute a small but significant minority of Muslims, perhaps 10 to 15 per cent of the population. Many of them are peaceable in appearance, but they all must be considered potential killers. Here is some guidance, starting with steps to take to protect the rights of the Muslim minority: * Maintain the utmost respect for individual Muslims, mosques and other institutions. A time of crisis does not change the assumption that each of us is innocent until proved guilty. * Do not make any prejudicial statements against Muslims, a great majority of whom are innocent of Islamism or illegal behaviour. * Provide extra protection against acts of vandalism or hooliganism against Muslim property and individuals. * The press, politicians and other opinion leaders should speak out on these points. So much for the easy steps. The harder ones concern the investigation of past crimes and their prevention in the future. The painful fact is that Muslims alone are susceptible to the lure of Islamist extremism. While safeguarding the civil rights and religious freedoms of Muslims, then, steps must be taken to diminish their unique susceptibility to this totalitarian ideology. Here are some recommendations: * Crack down hard on the Islamic institutions that funnel Muslim youth into jihad (sacred war) activities. This is a particularly British problem. For about a decade, these youths have signed on for such acceptable foreign activities as studying at Islamic seminaries or working for Islamic charities, which have then served as recruiting devices for jihad against non-Muslims in such places as Bosnia, Chechnya and Kashmir. These men clearly serve as potential cadres for attacks within Britain, perhaps elsewhere. * Worry about Islamist "sleepers". These individuals go quietly about their business until one day they are called into action. Ali A Mohamed, a naturalised US citizen born in Egypt, reached the rank of sergeant in the US army; earlier this year, he pleaded guilty to scouting out the American embassy in Nairobi as a bombing target on behalf of bin Laden, as well as assorted other tasks. * Combat the broader climate of hatred and extremism among Muslim populations resident in the West that has repeatedly lead to terrorism. Rashid Baz, the Lebanese-born delivery driver who randomly killed a Hasidic Jewish boy on the Brooklyn Bridge in March 1994, one report found, "lived in a milieu that cultivated terrorism" and "encouraged him to perpetrate violence". * Listen to the advice of anti-Islamist Muslims, the people first threatened by Islamism, who know it from closest proximity, and who can help penetrate its clandestine hierarchies. * Close internet sites that promote violence, raise money for this purpose and recruit new members. The American government took a first step in this direction last week by closing down InfoCom, a Dallas-based host for many Islamist organisations. * Guard vigilantly against the possibility of visitors and immigrants with Islamist records entering the country. No Western government has dared do this because it smacks of bias (the British ban on Louis Farrakhan was a temporary exception). But each Islamist who enters is an enemy on the home front. * Beef up aircraft profiling - the practice of looking at passengers' ethnic and religious characteristics. This has been controversial in the US, where lobbies have impeded law enforcement officials from using their common sense to keep an especially watchful eye for Islamists because, allegedly, this "unfairly singles out" minorities. The consequences of not profiling became painfully obvious on Tuesday, when between 12 and 24 Islamists hijacked four separate flights. * Isolate noisy and prominent Islamist organisations such as the Muslim Council of Britain and the Islamic Human Rights Council. These are in fact fringe organisations and they should be avoided by politicians, the media, corporations and all the rest of mainstream society. * Reconsider past mistakes. Universities, media outlets, churches and government bureaus have some hard soul-searching to do; their experts on Islam and Muslims have an influential group of apologists (one recent example is the BBC with its week-long BBC programming on Islam). They have counseled against every one of the steps outlined here. These specialists bear some responsibility for the unpreparedness that led to this week's disaster. They and their institutions must review past mistakes and begin with a fresh, realistic approach. The goal in formulating policy toward domestic Muslim populations must be two-fold: to combine fairness toward their moderate majority with a very tough stance toward the Islamists. This balance requires sensitivity but not political correctness - a match that can be achieved if done honestly and intelligently. - --------- Woof, Marc "Crafty Dog" Denny ------------------------------ From: Kes41355@aol.com Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 07:33:18 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #422 In a message dated 9/22/01 8:53:04 AM Pacific Daylight Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << (orthodox-to-orthodox stance...right side forward) >> Caught this error after I sent the mail...FWIW, an "orthodox" stance in boxing is left side forward, for a right-handed person. Kim Satterfield ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 06:31:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Pentagon information Appreciate this poster's query, re: Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 7:54:21 PDT Subject: Re: eskrima: Bro in the pentagon > Kenny McD, where are you? > > Has anyone heard from Ken, our Kali dude on site at the Pentagon? Ken has sent the list several updates since the attack. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com> Response: Thanks for the above inquiry. Sunday morning, 23 Sep 01. Working 12 hour shifts, including weekends. 12 hour shifts should end next week. One of the Pentagon parking lots has been cordoned off with fencing. The rescue teams place the striked site's debry in large trucks. The trucks then bring the debry to the cordoned off site where the FBI further analyze it. Armed guards at Pentagon entrances, all packages are inspected. All military installations are on high alert. Another lot has a caravan of detection dogs used in rescue mission. Several entrances to Pentagon closed off. Things will never be the same here or in the U.S., regarding security. Trying to stay loose. Thanks, Ken McD... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 8:08:39 PDT Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #424 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.