From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #426 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Mon, 24 Sept 2001 Vol 08 : Num 426 In this issue: eskrima: Teach yourself or strike a deal... eskrima: details eskrima: Guro eskrima: So much to do eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #422 eskrima: Re: master or no master eskrima: Passing Along Requests for Information eskrima: About Extremist eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #425 eskrima: Placido Yambao book translated eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1200 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Hutchins, Jamie" Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 10:16:01 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Teach yourself or strike a deal... Hi Ms. J, When I grow up I also want to be a weapons master... with time running out I've taken to hanging out at desolate crossroads waiting to strike a deal with Scratch... jus' kidding of course! Ray - do they have a teach yourself Kali/Arnis/Eskrima or Muay Thai? I have a 15 hour flight coming up! ;-> - ------------------------------ From: "johnaleen" Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 13:14:05 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re:Master.... When i grow up i want to be a Weapons Master......:) I recon when there about to toss the dirt on me i should be ready for testing.... Ms. J grins Evilly.........:) - ------------------------------ - ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 20:12:15 PDT Subject: eskrima: Islam A good book that I read a couple years ago while on a cross country plane ride, Teach Yourself Islam by Ruqaiyyah Maqsood, 1994. It is one in a series of teach yourself world faiths books. ISBN = 0-8442-3746-9. It is an easy, quick read. I'll probably read it again... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 08:06:00 -0700 Subject: eskrima: details A Howl etc: Sorry about not letting this topic go, > THIRD: > > ALL OF THE PEOPLE ALLIED IN THIS CAUSE ARE ISLAMIST (This term is NOT > interchangeable with Muslim. All Islamists are Muslims, but only a minority > of Muslims are Islamists) AND ALL ARE ARAB. you wrote: "Are you 100% sure about this? I always belived that the religion is Islam and all its followers are Muslims and then there are directions like sunnie, shia etc. Just like Christianity and christians, with the protestants and chatolics etc. Never ever seen the word islamist used before. My understanding is that these guys are extremist and you can be that regardless of religion. "And restricting all arabs because they can be terrorists is vague, I mean that wouldnt stop members from Abu Sajaf (sp?) doing the next attack, since they are alleged to be a part of Bin Ladens organization. Then stopping/restricting people of arabic decent wont acomplish anything, since the people commiting the action is not of arabic decent." ENDQUOTE Briefly: 1) Concerning terminology (Islam, Muslims, Islamists) I respectfully suggest you reread the article which I posted. 2) Of course not all Muslims are Arabs, and indeed not all terrorists are Arabs-- the Iranians are Indo-aryano (are something like that) and apparently they have supported lots of terrorism, but it does seem that all involved in the present situation against the US are Arab. I am sorry if I was not clear in stating that I was discussing the attack on my country. 3) I think if you reread my post, you will notice I suggested nothing, but merely noted that those who criticized such suggestions did need to come up with something that will work-- that it was not enough to criticize. Please feel free to take a stab at it. Woof, Marc "Crafty Dog" Denny ------------------------------ From: geezer883@juno.com Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 11:07:04 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Guro Ray, Thanks for the definition of "Master." I was wondering if I could get a definition of "Guro" from the list. Thanks, Rob ------------------------------ From: Ronald.Reekers@HSC.com Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 08:33:24 -0700 Subject: eskrima: So much to do [Seems like people are perhaps putting far too much meaning into the term Master, or perhaps not enough into the meaning of Guro.] If one doesn't have anything more to learn then perhaps, they should use the word "Omnipotent". It kind of reminds of the story Winston Churchill liked to tell. He asked his friend to calculate how much booze he had drank in his lifetime would fill this room they were in. The Mathematician did a quick calculation, and exclaims that it would come up to his nose. Winston looked from his nose to the high ceiling and said, "So much to do and so little time to do it". Titles are mostly based on current knowledge, but there is always so much more to do and learn. Ron Reekers http://thundercenter.com ------------------------------ From: "Ernest Westbrook" Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 17:45:29 +0000 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #422 "jose saguisabal" wrote: >Subject: eskrima: Masters > >Kim Satterfield wrote: >Generally, in the old days, an eskrimador must be >battle proven to be considered a master, and even then it was a title that >was recognized and bestowed by ones' peers. To call oneself a "master of a >Filipino martial art" would quickly bring about an "accreditation process" >of sorts...the claimant will be challenged by other eskrimadors, to put >their self-proclaimed skills to the test. Unfortunately today, the title >has lost much of it's original meaning, and anyone with enough money can >buy a coveted "master" certificate (however, the true masters are still >recognized and respected in FMA circles). >Sadly, pretenders to the throne >are tolerated today much, much more >than they would have been 50 years >ago. > >Amen to that! > >Jay Part of the problem is with us as FMaists and people who are supposed to be knowledgable about the art and culture. We need to speak out about the frauds... but alas, part of the problem also to be found within the fact that some people can and do "buy" their rating... which of course means there ws a "seller"; then we have to consider the fact that some people would be inclined to go to court in the USA and file a civil slander suit against the people who would call their 'master designation' a bogus thing. It does present quite a problem doesn't it? Then we have another possible problem looming on the horizion... for the sake of discussion, what if a group of FMAists got together and publicized a criteria for 'master and grand master' status, based on a combination of objective criteria and the collective backgrounds of 15 known GMs. Could we expect to have a general agreement and acceptence of the standard among most (we would never get all) current FMAs instructors? I wonder! Given the tendenccy that I have noticed among a number of posters over the couple years that I have been reading this digest, I would expect a number of people to take the position of supporting their own instructors and denying the credibility of others. Just a few thoughts on the topic from someone who has raised a few questions in the past. EBrook THE Wicked Western Warlock _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: "Ernest Westbrook" Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 18:36:29 +0000 Subject: eskrima: Re: master or no master "LARRY ST. CLAIR" wrote: >Subject: eskrima: master or no master... > >Master or no master...? That is the question. > >I personally have always frowned on the term "master" in the martial arts. I bet that the term and its acceptence predates your time in the martial arts! And I would further bet that "tradition" is going to play a major role in that term being used in the MAs after you have departed the scene. >To me the term means that there is nothing more to learn. You have > >mastered something, so what is left. Wow, then what would "Grand Master" mean to you? Could it be that the GM is losing knowledge faster then he/she learned it? >I truly believe that from the day we are born we learn things. Even >all >the way up till the day we die, we will still be learning. Boy, do I wish that you were correct! There is so much to learn and there are people whose minds are so closed that they stopped learning years ago and they might be young(?) and many years away frorm physical death. Look at what the word "master" could mean, in terms of being "a master" of a particular skill. In Japan, there are people who are designated as "living masters". Does that mean that they have 'mastered the art and science of living'? No! It means that they are particularly skilled at some small aspect of doing/performing a skilled activity! They are not perfect people with nothing more to learn, they simply better skilled than most others at a particular task AND they can explain it (teach it)! >I am always in a constant training mode. Perhaps you should take some time out for both contemplation and reflection! Perhaps you are placing too much emphasis on the skill and not enough on the philosophy of the art that you practice and teach. Just a suggestion from someone who is not a "master". >My students both in training and ability keep me on my toes. They >help me >learn as much as I do them. But are you striving to have them become better than you? >I like to look at Guro Inosanto as a man who is always a student. >Never satisfied with his current level. >Always striving for more knowledge and ability. >To me, this is where we should all be. A good role model to be sure, however are you sure that you want to follow that path as opposed to striking out on your own journey through life and the arts? If we always follow a leader or role model, when do we get the opportunity to stand in the sunlight rather than in his/her shadow, only hearing about what it is like to feel the warmth of the sun on ouur own body? Brandon Tapps wrote: >Subject: eskrima: Masterhood > >I'm not qualified to say who can use the title of >"Master" in FMA but I do have food for thought. > >Dan Inasanto, in the preface of his book Filipino >Martial arts claims " I'm no master only a guro. Perhaps, appropriate at that time, but do you really consider him to be "...only a guro." I would suggest that he is more and the fact that he has been presented on almost every list of Master Instructors of the FMAs, presented to this digest, would indicate to me that others perceive him to be a master. >Remy Presas, Grandmaster of Modern Arnis, preferred to >be called Professor. And your point is? You have just written out the supelative title of "master". He prefered to be called "Professor", but in the Asian sense of the term, what was he telling us? Could it be that there there can be numerous GMs within a system - witness, Balintawak under GM Venancio Bacon, where there were several GMs wwhile he waqs alive and the head master of the style... correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that Professor studied under GM Moncol and GM Maranga, prior to finishing under GM Bacon. My point is that *there could have been* sevral IMAF GMs under Professor Presas, but there was going to be Only One PROFESSOR! >In my opinion if you're using the term "Master" and >you aren't in a league with these guys .... >you look kinda silly. You are over-reaching just a bit. Just two people, Inosanto and Presas, in this league? Wow... I won't mention any names but I can think of at least 12 others that I would put on my list of Masters within the FMAs. And I am talking about just those people who are currently still alive. My number would increase to 21, if I included the recently departed people in whose style I trained under their senior students, if I did not train directly under the Master. Ray Terry wrote: >Subject: eskrima: Master/Guro > >Where are people getting the impression that master means one has >nothing >more to learn??? > >Various definitions from Webster of the term master: > > - a person with the ability or power to use, control, or dispose of >something > - an employer of workmen > - a person who commands a merchant ship > - the male head of household > - a male teacher, tutor, or schoolmaster > - a person whose teachings one accepts or follows > - a victor or conqueror > - a workman qualified to teach apprentices and to carry on his > - trade >independently > - a man eminently skilled in something, as an occupation, art, or > >science > >Seems like people are perhaps putting far too much meaning into the >term >Master, or perhaps not enough into the meaning of Guro. Very well put, Ray. EBrook THE Wicked Western Warlock _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: "Ernest Westbrook" Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 18:49:44 +0000 Subject: eskrima: Passing Along Requests for Information I have received two request from e-mail addresses for the following people and I am asking the ED readers for your help. One person is looking Ama Guro Billy Bryant or a contact person from his organization in the Chesapeake VA area. The second request is for e-mail address of Guro Tom Barnhart & Jeff Allen - Dallas/Fort Worth area. You can write me or post the information, in either case I will pass the information along. Thanks, EBrook THE Wicked Western Warlock _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: TABULA RAZA Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 09:24:47 -1000 (HST) Subject: eskrima: About Extremist Hello folks, Yeah - the word extremist is right. Islamist I never heard that before. Do you mean "fundamental Muslim" when you mean that term? Well you could be a fundamentalist, but not always an extremist. I'm sure there are people who are fundamental about stuff like Christian values but don't go blowing up abortion clinics. It is sad that many Muslims are getting a bad rap. At the moment I am taking a History of Islam class, and from what I've learned so far, no one except Muhammad and his Caliphates, that is, his successors of his familial line can declare a jihad, but only in extreme circumstances like religious persecution for instance. The last Caliph was killed by the Mongols in the 12th century. Osama thinks Islam is under attack because the U.S. is still in Saudi and all over the Middle East. So that is why he and possibly now, the Taliban, are wanting a jihad, even though by Qur'anic law, they have no right to declare one. In our fight against extremist and fundamentalist views and actions, I hope and pray that the people of this nation won't turn into the very thing they despise. Unfortunately, some of this negative transformation has already begun . . . . Assalamu Alai Kum (Peace be with you all), Erwin Legaspi "If we cleanse the doors of perception, everything would appear as it is . . .infinite." - William Blake "Intellect and intelligence do not go together. Intelligence is obtained only when the heart and mind reach an agreement." - Jiddu Krishnamurti "It is like a finger pointing to the moon . . .don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory." - Enter the Dragon, Bruce Lee ------------------------------ From: Mike Casto Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 13:44:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #425 > on the up and up....what school in Nac, TX do you > train at. > > I got a cousin there and we are located in Austin. I am a guest instructor and student at Lansdale's Self-Defense on the south side of the loop. It's a good group of guys and they do a lot of good work there. We have a lot of fun :-) Mike ===== Mike Casto Asian Fighting Arts - Texas Representative Nacogdoches, Texas - --------------------------------- Asian Fighting Arts Lansdale's Self-Defense Martial Arts Seminar Listings Martial Arts Schools Database __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Pete Sampogna Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 17:39:38 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Placido Yambao book translated anyone know the deal about this one? is it in print or not? best wishes pete sampogna Paperback published in 1999. Authored by Placido Yambao, Placido Yanbao, Reynaldo S. Galang. $13.56 ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 18:45:57 PDT Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #426 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.