From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #427 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Tues, 25 Sept 2001 Vol 08 : Num 427 In this issue: eskrima: Re: 2 Articals De-Escalation, Introspective eskrima: Jihad (Holy War) eskrima: Master? eskrima: different topics eskrima: Amarra? eskrima: statement eskrima: Must Read from USAF Academy's former director of Mil. History eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #426 eskrima: Fwd: Gatdula comments on Guro Dan Inosanto eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1200 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "johnaleen" Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 22:51:56 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re: 2 Articals De-Escalation, Introspective Ms. J bows deeply... since the events on September 11th there have been many impacts on our local community's, the national picture right now looks harsh. I have recently written 2 articles, they are linked on the below address. 1) De-Escalation-WTC, Terrorism-Victimization- Resources 2) Introspective: Bailing out Americas Airline industry. http://www.f-a-t-e.org/articals/victims/terrorisim.html The first article is a community resource and awareness article on the effects for our local area as well as some of the national issues and will be in this weeks Atlantic City Press. it has a full list of resources for famleys to help deal with the recent issues facing America. the second article has been sent to the nations larger news papers as an editorial, i have no clue if this will be printed in any of them, but when i was asked to write an article for the AC press, other issues were written about. I was told by many that read the introspective, that it needed to be sent out and offered for publication as well. so i tossed it out there to the national press. i dont believe it will be listened too seriously by anyone, but i have been asked by many what my overall opinion is about what happened, and why. so there it is.. that's my opinion and i have my resources and data to back them to be sure...... and yes, i am prepared for some not to agree with me, this is not about others agreeing, its about what i feel is correct based on my personal experiences from many levels. Ms J........ Please feel free to send the link to the De-Escalation-WTC, Terrorism-Victimization- Resources file around, its a huge positive resource guide for famleys during this time. "We might not give joyful welcome to the trials and tribulations of life, but we can accept them for the lesson they contain, the growth they make possible." ------------------------------ From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 23:08:34 EDT Subject: eskrima: Jihad (Holy War) The Muslim Filipino is in Jihad long ago after the Spanish arrive in the Philippines. From day 0ne that they step foot to the Philippines up to now, the Christian VS Muslim is been in the Filipino history, so this not new to us, That why we have the "Moro-moro" they adapted the idea from this Jihad thing that they called.. Remember the Jurametado, or the running "Amok" is only done in the Philippine for a long tradition by Filipino Muslim. I have been heard anything like it in any Arab country. Anyway, they can run but they cannot hide from US. Just few cent fromon this topic. Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet (Christian name) Gat Puno Abun "Garaymot" Bait (Muslim name) Few letter in spelling dont make a difference, still me... << It is sad that many Muslims are getting a bad rap. At the moment I am taking a History of Islam class, and from what I've learned so far, no one except Muhammad and his Caliphates, that is, his successors of his familial line can declare a jihad, but only in extreme circumstances like religious persecution for instance. The last Caliph was killed by the Mongols in the 12th century. Osama thinks Islam is under attack because the U.S. is still in Saudi and all over the Middle East. So that is why he and possibly now, the Taliban, are wanting a jihad, even though by Qur'anic law, they have no right to declare one. >> ------------------------------ From: "BILL MCGRATH" Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 00:09:13 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Master? I like Ray's dictionary definition of master as "expert". Unfortunately people these days don't take the word at its true meaning. If we were speaking of a "master carpenter" you would expect an experienced and proficient carpenter, but not a miracle worker. When we say "martial arts master" many tend to think of someone who can go beyond proficiency and into magic. I think the word has been given such an unrealistic meaning in modern times that it has lost its usefulness to a large extent. I have been doing Pekiti-Tirsia for 26 years. Probably enough time for the dictionary definition of "master" if I were doing carpentry or plumbing. But when people ask me what my rank (Tuhon Guro) means I tell them the literal translation "Chief Instructor", because of what the term "master" has come to mean in modern times even though Tuhon Gaje used the term on my rank certificate. Regards, Tuhon Bill McGrath Visit the PTI web site at: http://www.pekiti-tirsia.com/index.html ------------------------------ From: abanico-video-knuettel@t-online.de (Dieter =?iso-8859-1?Q?Kn=FCttel?=) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 11:39:00 +0200 Subject: eskrima: different topics Hi, just a few notes on some topics. Terrorists: The NY and Washington terrorists, who lived in Germany for up to 8 years, never had any conflict with german authorities. No police record or anything. Even people they studies with, did not know about their attitude. They never tried to propagate extreme islamic positions nor did they try to convince others to join them to the islam. There was no chance to find out before hand, that they were planning such an horrable attack. According to german terrorist specialists, there is no profile of scuicide attackers possible. They come from all different social levels and educations. Masters: When I talked with Suro Mike Inay about the title of "master", he said, that in his system, a master must have to be at least 20 years in the art. Professor Presas has told me, that the 6th Dan is junior Master, 7th Dan senior master and 8th - 10th Dan is Grandmaster. My 6th Dan certificate has also "junior master" on it. Before everybody starts to bark again, I only stated, that this is how he handeled it here in Germany with our group. I have heared that there are 5th Dan with the junior master title and Jeff Delany as a 5th Dan and Grandmaster does not fit in this pattern either. But first of all the Professor was a man with many aspects and with Jeff I think extreme situations, like the one the Professor was in in his last 10 months, need actions beyond the normal rules. Just to make clear, I do not mean with this mail, that Jeff Delaney is not legitimate to hold this title. The professor gave it to him I am sure for good reasons. Grandmaster: I have 2 experiences with a filipino grandmaster. I will not mention his name here. One thing is, that he told me, with not even 40 years of age, something like:" You know Dieter, once you are a Grandmaster and know everything..." ?????????????? I thought that this was a very strange statement. The second eprience with him was, that in the early years, when I asked how whe should call or approach him, he would say to use his first name. But suddenly things changed, and he wanted to be called Grandmaster. So far so good, no problem. But then I had the experience during a breakfast, where his own wife asked: "Grandmaster, can you please pass the sugar." I thought this is really weired. Still he is a very respected GM, also here on the list. Modern Arnis videos: I am glad to tell, that I have recently finished the english translation of a 5 part Modern Arnis video series, that I have produced early this year. They cover the new examination program of the German Arnis Association from white through to brown belt. The videos show a lot of different topics like Sinawalis, Singe stick techniques, combinations, disarms, drills, classical Arnis, Karanza, empty hand techniques, lockflows, drills, knifedefense, selfdefense and a lot of Tapi-Tapi in every level and a lot more. For more information please check on my homepage and click the "Modern Arnis" button. Best regards from Germany Dieter - -- Dieter Knüttel ABANICO Video Productions http://www.abanico.de http://www.modern-arnis.de ------------------------------ From: "Hutchins, Jamie" Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 07:26:43 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Amarra? Dear ED members, In response to Ray's call for a return to matters FMA or at lest MA I wondered if I could tap your collective knowledge again. After my first 9 months of training in Kali I am now starting to get into some sparring training, currently in armour (I think essentially the same as that used in Doce Pares) and well predictably I am having some trouble getting some quality combinations together... much like when I started to spar in boxing. I recently read that there are many set combinations around that one can practice with in order to build a repertoire of preferred combinations... I think they are called Amarra or the type of training is called that anyway. Would anyone be able to describe a number of combinations that I could use during Amarra? Maybe there's a website with some details that you know of, a book with good descriptions or even a video? I would, as usual, be indebted for any assistance that you can offer me. Best wishes, Jamie ------------------------------ From: "Meghan Gardner" Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 08:25:20 -0400 Subject: eskrima: statement Greetings... I good friend of mine asked me, as an instructor of violence, to write a statement in regards to our nation's response to terrorism. Below is my response. I expect that there will be a number of people on this list who will disagree with at least part of it. I look forward to the discussion. Meghan Gardner Director Guard Up, Inc. www.guardup.com Burlington, MA USA 781.270.4800 "Always carry love in your heart, and a knife in your pocket." me ____________________________________________________________________________ I am too much of a fighter at heart to turn the cheek on this one. As much as our government may have brought this upon us by (in my not-so-humble opinion) sticking its fingers into other nation's conflicts for the sole reason of protecting oil interests, this attack was uncalled for. And the perpetrators must be brought to justice. The sadness of this whole thing is, however, that our government will continue to tromp upon various cultures who control the output of oil and, as such, terrorism will not end. We need to examine the reason for such malevolence against our nation and understand our own role in sparking such a response. And then wonder long and hard as to whether the risk is justifiable. But if we tolerate no violence against one another, then how are we to defend ourselves? I hold that violence should only ever be the last option. But never discarded as a possibility. We should first approach one another with love and patience. We should endeavor to understand and to educate against all forms of intolerance. But we also have a responsibility to protect ourselves and those who cannot protect themselves. For if we reject violence completely, we will only succeed in leaving it within the hands of those who will misuse it. Violence is an answer... but not the only one. Sun Tzu wrote many centuries ago that you should never corner your enemy and leave them with nothing to lose. He was the greatest military leader of his time for a good reason. He knew that an enemy with nothing left to lose was extremely dangerous. They became empowered by their position. They would die taking as many of your forces as they could. And their hatred would know no boundaries. In this situation, I believe that violence is justified and necessary. However, it needs to be tempered with patience and directed with understanding. Our response needs to be precise... if we take innocent lives we become no better than those who have heaped this atrocity upon us. If we act in righteousness that is blind to our own role in this tragedy, then we will never escape the vicious cycle that can only perpetuate more violence and more hatred. Gavin deBecker wrote that there are 4 ways to tell if someone will carry through on a violent threat: 1) Justification: Do they feel they are justified in their actions? 2) Alternatives: Do they believe that they lack any other alternatives? 3) Consequences: Do they think that the possible consequences of their actions are acceptable? 4) Ability: Do they have the ability to carry out the threat? We can affect their ability through higher security measures. We can stiffen the consequences with our own violent responses. However, we cannot take away their Justification if we do not provide them with Alternatives to terrorism. We need to be just in our actions. We need to hold terrorists accountable and make the consequences heavy. But we need to also be aware of the "wipe 'em out" mentality that will only empower their position. We need to provide their cause with alternatives to violence. And we need to direct our scrutiny inward and question why our most violent enemies of the past two decades were, at one time, financed and trained by our own government. We need to understand our role in this as we impart justice. Because the purpose of violence should never be to further violence. Utilized alone, it will no longer be the last alternative... it will be the only alternative. At this moment we become the enemy we seek to destroy. This is the double edge of the sword of violence. God help us if we misuse it. ------------------------------ From: kalkiusa@netscape.net Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 09:32:57 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Must Read from USAF Academy's former director of Mil. History From: Dr. Tony Kern, Lt Col, USAF (Ret) Recently, I was asked to look at the recent events through the lens of military history. I have joined the cast of thousands who have written an "open letter to Americans." 14 September 2001 Dear friends and fellow Americans: Like everyone else in this great country, I am reeling from last week's attack on our sovereignty. But unlike some, I am not reeling from surprise. As a career soldier and a student and teacher of military history, I have a different perspective and I think you should hear it. This war will be won or lost by the American citizens, not diplomats, politicians or soldiers. Let me briefly explain. In spite of what the media, and even our own government is telling us, this act was not committed by a group of mentally deranged fanatics. To dismiss them as such would be among the gravest of mistakes. This attack was committed by a ferocious, intelligent and dedicated adversary. Don't take this the wrong way. I don't admire these men and I deplore their tactics, but I respect their capabilities. The many parallels that have been made with the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor are apropos. Not only because it was a brilliant sneak attack against a complacent America, but also because we may well be pulling our new adversaries out of caves 30 years after we think this war is over, just like my father's generation had to do with the formidable Japanese in the years following WW II. These men hate the United States with all of their being, and we must not underestimate the power of their moral commitment. Napoleon, perhaps the world's greatest combination of soldier and statesman, stated "the moral is to the physical as three is to one." Patton thought the Frenchman underestimated its importance and said moral conviction was five times more important in battle than physical strength. Our enemies are willing - better said anxious -- to give their lives for their cause. How committed are we America? And for how long? In addition to demonstrating great moral conviction, the recent attack demonstrated a mastery of some of the basic fundamentals of warfare taught to most military officers worldwide, namely simplicity, security and surprise. When I first heard rumors that some of these men may have been trained at our own Air War College, it made perfect sense to me. This was not a random act of violence, and we can expect the same sort of military competence to be displayed in the battle to come. This war will escalate, with a good portion of it happening right here in the good ol' U.S. of A. These men will not go easily into the night. They do not fear us. We must not fear them. In spite of our overwhelming conventional strength as the world's only "superpower" (a truly silly term), we are the underdog in this fight. As you listen to the carefully scripted rhetoric designed to prepare us for the march for war, please realize that America is not equipped or seriously trained for the battle ahead. To be certain, our soldiers are much better than the enemy, and we have some excellent "counter-terrorist" organizations, but they are mostly trained for hostage rescues, airfield seizures, or the occasional "body snatch," (which may come in handy). We will be fighting a war of annihilation, because if their early efforts are any indication, our enemy is ready and willing to die to the last man. Eradicating the enemy will be costly and time consuming. They have already deployed their forces in as many as 20 countries, and are likely living the lives of everyday citizens. Simply put, our soldiers will be tasked with a search and destroy mission on multiple foreign landscapes, and the public must be patient and supportive until the strategy and tactics can be worked out. For the most part, our military is still in the process of redefining itself and presided over by men and women who grew up with - and were promoted because they excelled in - Cold War doctrine, strategy and tactics. This will not be linear warfare, there will be no clear "centers of gravity" to strike with high technology weapons. Our vast technological edge will certainly be helpful, but it will not be decisive. Perhaps the perfect metaphor for the coming battle was introduced by the terrorists themselves aboard the hijacked aircraft -- this will be a knife fight, and it will be won or lost by the ingenuity and will of citizens and soldiers, not by software or smart bombs. We must also be patient with our military leaders. Unlike Americans who are eager to put this messy time behind us, our adversaries have time on their side, and they will use it. They plan to fight a battle of attrition, hoping to drag the battle out until the American public loses its will to fight. This might be difficult to believe in this euphoric time of flag waving and patriotism, but it is generally acknowledged that America lacks the stomach for a long fight. We need only look as far back as Vietnam, when North Vietnamese General Vo Nguyen Giap (also a military history teacher) defeated the United States of America without ever winning a major tactical battle. American soldiers who marched to war cheered on by flag waving Americans in 1965 were reviled and spat upon less than three years later when they returned. Although we hope that Usama Bin Laden is no Giap, he is certain to understand and employ the concept. We can expect not only large doses of pain like the recent attacks, but also less audacious "sand in the gears" tactics, ranging from livestock infestations to attacks at water supplies and power distribution facilities. These attacks are designed to hit us in our "comfort zone" forcing the average American to "pay more and play less" and eventually eroding our resolve. But it can only work if we let it. It is clear to me that the will of the American citizenry - you and I - is the center of gravity the enemy has targeted. It will be the fulcrum upon which victory or defeat will turn. He believes us to be soft, impatient, and self-centered. He may be right, but if so, we must change. The Prussian general Carl von Clausewitz, (the most often quoted and least read military theorist in history), says that there is a "remarkable trinity of war" that is composed of the (1) will of the people, (2) the political leadership of the government, and (3) the chance and probability that plays out on the field of battle, in that order. Every American citizen was in the crosshairs of last Tuesday's attack, not just those that were unfortunate enough to be in the World Trade Center or Pentagon. The will of the American people will decide this war. If we are to win, it will be because we have what it takes to persevere through a few more hits, learn from our mistakes, improvise, and adapt. If we can do that, we will eventually prevail. Everyone I've talked to In the past few days has shared a common frustration, saying in one form or another "I just wish I could do something!" You are already doing it. Just keep faith in America, and continue to support your President and military, and the outcome is certain. If we fail to do so, the outcome is equally certain. God Bless America! Dr. Tony Kern, Lt Col, USAF (Ret) Former Director of Military History, USAF Academy __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ------------------------------ From: Bladewerkrr@aol.com Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 09:43:47 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #426 In a message dated 9/24/01 6:20:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Part of the problem is with us as FMaists and people who are supposed to be knowledgable about the art and culture. We need to speak out about the frauds... >> As I see it, one of the problems with FMA titles is the same thing we used to run into in Karate. There is no standardization. If a person studies for 2 years and is awarded a black belt, meeting all the requirements of the system he trains in, he has the same rank as on whose system requires 5 years to attain the rank. (I remember once we had a boy of 17 and his father come into our dojo, the person teaching the class was a third degree, it taking him almost 12 years to achieve that. The boy smirked and quipped "You must be a slow learner, I got my third degree in 5 years.") There are many people out there that hold legitimate rank, under their teacher, that would be ranked much lower in another system. Again one of the problems is the ranking system itself! As it has been explained to me (and if I am wrong please excuse my ignorance) originally there was no rank in FMA. I recall something Tuhon Mc Grath once said about the old days of Pekiti Tirsia, "Other systems have belts, we have scars." (Tuhon Bill, if I misquoted that I apologize). Some systems are much more complex than others. Some have as few as 5 angles, some more than 15. So, we are back to where things are in the real world. A person with an engineering degree from MIT and a person with an engineering degree from Podunk State are both college graduates, both have a Bachelors degree. Both met certain standards. Who is the better engineer? That we have to take on individual merit. Although MIT is a very prestigious institution, if the MIT grad majored in partying and got out by the skin of his teeth, and the Podunk grad gave it his all...? Just my useless rambling, Bear ------------------------------ From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 09:39:35 EDT Subject: eskrima: Fwd: Gatdula comments on Guro Dan Inosanto I posted this on Arnis Topica List, for the other to read what is going on on this other list.. thanks Gat Puno Abon Gatdula original post: << >>for dr fung where i disagree with mr inosanto is his method of teaching. i cant disagree with his fighting style so much because i never saw it or fight against it. but i believe his people learn to much to fast, >> with not enough application. Maurice Gatdula, pardon me if I may say few words on this post: I agree with you for some extend, but I think we cant really measured someone style or system with out facing them. I also believed that some of his student has knowledge of application of his arts, to name few of them, Eric Paulson, and the some of the Dog Borothers, weather we accepted or not, they practiced combat application enough to used againts anyone. >> i believe that martial arts in the philippines is not the kind of style to spend so much time doing things like drills. philippine martial arts is a fighting style, and i have been taught that fighting is something you have >>>>to do, not simulate it. Let me say I dont agree with this. Some of us in the Philippine learned from different mentors, our instructors are the one telling us to do this and that. Guess what I know the facts some system, style, in the Philippines survived from this type of training, some has created drills, to simulates all combatives aspect of it, some designed simple, attack and basic defenses and counters and then simulation of fighting, then fighting and fighting. We can dis agree but we cant do nothing about it, that his freedom of choice. >>also i am offended that there has been no visit to the philippines as a senior man in america, it makes sense to me he would see what is there before making a statement like what is dumug and kinomutai. any pilipino instructor can tell you the truth about that. >> in my opinion he avoid the philippines. We cannot be offended if he choose not to go and check Philippines. That his personal choice, may be he has another reason why? So what that make him not legit FMA'tist? I think you being childish on this topic, I really believed that.. we should be learning also other dialect before we comments on words they said and used. Dumug or Dumog -s a Visayan word for Wrestling, Kinamotai, is a Visayan word derived from the word Kamut meaning hand, put it together in Visayan Kinamut meaning the used of hand, in Tagalog just simply means scratched.. >> and he doesnt even know that there are many filipino boys who looked up to him years ago when he is the only filipino in >>the karate magazines. anyway there is too much incorrect information that he wrote, and even today when he HAS to know the truth, he doesnt correct himself. i even believed stuff in his books myself arguing even to my mother and grandparents who are all >> martial artists. We cannot just judge Guro Dan for not replying to your letter, and not looking to those people whom admire him, first of all he is a father that need to make a living, you invited him you gotta pay, to see him and learn from him, that his bread and butter. I totally understand that. If someone wanted to meet me, they fly me over and hosted a Seminar for me.. not just becaused their my funs I have to go over and look for them, I think this is common to the MA instructors proffession. We should be thakful, he started the popularity of FMA and become easier to us to teach, our particular style out there as long as you call one of those he propagated before FMA >>and even though i might sound disrespectful to him and disagreeing, i respect him as my senior in the art, and i love him for putting the philippine fighting arts on the map. i did write to him while i was growing up, but i never got a letter back. that was 20 >> years ago, and im over it now. >>by now everybody should know i shout the most, but i am a softspeaking guy in person. but i cant help it, when i disagree, i have to say something, i alwasy >> been that way, only now on the computer people have to listen. Maurice, I know your feeling toward him is genuine. But we should be more positive towards his efforts. I meet and spoke to Guro Inosanto 1990, 92,93, and 2000, he is the same man I meet ten years ago, down to earth man, the one make him look bad is his followers that do not respect other FMA'tist, if you are not part of this Stockton Clan you are out of their league. We should help each other but we cannot blame him, and say something againts him, he is is just doing the best he knows how. Like you and me trying to do the best we could do.. No one in FMA know it all all of us has something to learn to each other.. But let not create a seperation like the others do, Let unite and get all GM, Master behind us to be one FMA community in the Planet. Sorry if I have to post this way, No dis respect towards you or others,,, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Laguna Arnis Federation Interantional US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research Center USA ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 7:26:50 PDT Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #427 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.