From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #430 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Wed, 26 Sept 2001 Vol 08 : Num 430 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Titles eskrima: Guro Inosanto's teaching method eskrima: Re: Grandmaster eskrima: Master vs. Guro, etc. eskrima: Old Days... eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1200 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Lowery" Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 00:56:46 +0100 Subject: eskrima: Re: Titles Hi Ray >But when we attempt to adapt and adopt western terms we end up with Master and Headmaster and Grandmaster and Great Grandmaster and Professor and Chief and Regional High Chief and Chief Headmaster and Supreme Grandmaster and ...< Grand Poobah?...;-) Bill Lowery ------------------------------ From: "q" Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 22:02:43 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Guro Inosanto's teaching method Gatdula original post: << >>for dr fung where i disagree with mr inosanto is his method of teaching. i cant disagree with his fighting style so much because i never saw it or fight against it. but i believe his people learn to much to fast, >> with not enough application. Guro, Somewhere I missed the response to my post from Guro Gatdula. I caught this post in Guro Abon's. Perhaps you could get this impression since Guro I teaches so fast there is little time to drill/apply what is taught. Let me clarify the teaching method. When Guro Inosanto teaches you drink from a firehose. His firehose delivery is a reflection of his excitement and desire to get the information into the student. He does teach fast and you need to revisit his teaching methods often to fully understand them. Guro I is the University level but even the slow learners like me get it with time. He believes that your time to drill is during your own personal research. He has always told us to break into small training groups and experiment. Like a University professor he tells us that he cannot be our only teacher. We are told from an early age to seek out others who can teach us. There is no fear of polluting or upseting a set teaching progression. He is a real teacher and that is how teacher teach. The essence of "Absorb what is useful" that you originally talked about on your website may be better phrased... "absorb what is useful at this point in your understanding and take away what you can use today. In that essence JKD is all about application. In the 70's we sparred in gloves after 2 months and hard contact stickfighting in 1 year and we were the wimp classes. The actual special JKD class was doing things that were "classified" at the time. Certainly we where not polished at that early age and the gear caused lots of offense and not alot of defense but you were put into an environment to use and test technique and test theory and that was our "application." With time and maturity and skill we revisited that which was discarded and brought it back into the system which became each person's JKD. In that vein the MA's remain fresh and continually challenging. I hope that helps in the understanding. Regards, Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S. Redondo Beach, Ca. ------------------------------ From: "LARRY ST. CLAIR" Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 23:46:02 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: Grandmaster Ray wrote: >Seems that part of the problem comes from trying to come up with western terms for Japanese/Chinese/Korean/Filipino terms. If a Korean art uses Sabumnim or Japanese art uses Sensei or a Chinese art uses Sifu, we're ok. But when we attempt to adapt and adopt western terms we end up with Master and Headmaster and Grandmaster and Great Grandmaster and Professor and Chief and Regional High Chief and Chief Headmaster and Supreme Grandmaster and ... ........ I agree Ray. It seems once again, we fuss over the name of something, rather than the individual or product. We could sit here all day and debate about what master and grand master mean to each one of us. But judging from what I've seen so far, we all have similar and yet different ideas of what the definition is. It's like the tao, if you begin to describe it, you've already lost all hope of really obtaining it. on a final note... and then......no more an then, lol. p2eb, saint ------------------------------ From: "Cory Eicher" Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 00:40:04 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Master vs. Guro, etc. In my own opinion, the term "master" is the top of the list that starts with "novice" and progresses through such weirdly cultural terms as "journeyman", "artisen", and so forth. "Master," and the accompanying terms, deal with skill level. A master craftsman is one of the best in the field, be the field civil engineering or knifemaking. The martial arts should be no different. A master martial artist is one who is in the top of the field, skillwise. The word "guro," if I understand the translation, means "teacher." The standard assumption in the martial arts world (at least my limited view of it) sems to be that one implies the other. This view does not seem to be held in most other fields. and shouldn't be held in MA. I've had the priviledge of sparring with top notch NHB fighters, some of whom couldn't teach a cat to land on its feet. And I've learned a lot from instructors that I could drill into the mat. If I call someone "guro," either in the context of, "Hey, Guro Ruch, could you hand me that practice knife?" or "Yeah, he's my Guro," I'm using a formal title, for whatever reason. If I call someone a "master" it's an adjective describing their skill level in my eyes. Bill Clinton is a master of the verbal dodge, P.J. O'Rourke is a master of political satire, and I'm not a master of anything. But I am, in the sense of being an educational professional, a guro. I guess a "Master Guro,' is someone who is one of the best teachers around. Cory ========================================= Learn everything you can. Use everything that works. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: T David Reyes Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 08:21:39 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Old Days... > I believe that Grandmaster is a fairly new development. I don't recall it > being used in the 1960s. Seems like it came about in the 1970s or 80s, or > at least became more wide spread. ??? What is the recollection of others? Referring to Stockton before the selling and commercialization of FMA (pre-1960's), the title "Escrimador" was vogue and commanded respect. Of that title there were two classifications, the Escrimador who was "Raman" (one who has tasted blood) and the ever feared "Berdugo". One would not proclaim himself escrimador, but rather was referred to as such by his peers. Master and Grandmaster titles came via The Legionarios Del Trabajo (circa 1930's), members who borrowed heavily from the Masons. As for the title of "Guro", in Stockton during these times there could only be one. "The Worshipul Master" was elected by his fellow LDT members every seven years and only then was he ceremoniously deemed "Guro". Guro did not necessarily infer FMA prowress, but rather that he was Paham and possesed great leadership qualities. Ituloy, David Reyes~ ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 9:46:30 PDT Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #430 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. 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