From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #515 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Mon, 3 Dec 2001 Vol 08 : Num 515 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #514 eskrima: Balisongs and boiled linseed oil eskrima: R. Saturno, Jr.'s Balisongs eskrima: Pushing Ratan and inherent problems eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://InayanEskrima.com Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bladewerkrr@aol.com Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 11:28:24 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #514 In a message dated 12/3/01 8:18:55 AM Pacific Standard Time, Luis writes: << Miguel Zubiri, a Bakbakan student of Topher Ricketts, is a congressman. He is authoring a bill to make Arnis/Escrima a National Art and a part of Philippine National Heritage. (or something like that) This will hopefully help awareness among the mass population. For the guys who want to openly spread the Art here, all I'll suggest is "MARKET ASSESMENT","PRODUCT IMAGING" and "MARKETING MIX". The TKD and KARATE guys in big organizations have done this very well, even if unknowingly. ------------------------------ >> Let us hope that the FMA's retain their integrity, instead of becoming like most Karate and TAe Kwon Do schools. I have nothing against popularity, (well perhaps to be honest I do as the more the masses accept something the less "special"it is) but I would hate to see the FMA's brought to the levels of the strip mall power ranger/ninja turtle karate school. Bear ------------------------------ From: Tom Meadows Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 08:57:32 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Balisongs and boiled linseed oil Greetings, Last issue R. Saturno wrote: " I would like to know how many different ways my fellow practitioners of the FMA have of opening this elegant weapon of our art. NO BS now . . . let's try not to exaggerate too badly now guys". Personally, I don't even open it. It works really well as a heavy palm stick. You can only get in trouble once you open it. Or out of trouble, if you should ask Animal....This applies to my Spyderco as well. One side benefit of boiled linseed oil as a stick treatment is that it gets slightly tacky in the prescence of moisture. This makes it stick really well in sweaty hands.Also boiled linseed oil is a totally different producthan plain linseed oil. Tom ------------------------------ From: "Jay de Leon" Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 11:17:53 -0800 Subject: eskrima: R. Saturno, Jr.'s Balisongs In one of his seminars here in California, Mat Marinas gave a brief demo of his balisong skills, and they were impressive (at least to me). He also did double balisongs, with each hand doing a different opening, twirling and closing, as well as some aerial techniques. I don't know if he really can do 180+ different ways to open a balisong, but I guess if you count the double balisong techniques and all the showy stuff, you can conceivably rack up 180+ ways. And if Mat Marinas says he can do it 180+ ways, chances are he probably can. He also mentioned he does not advertise or promote balisong training in his seminars in California because it is a felony to carry a balisong here (unless you can prove you are going to your martial arts school, or was that nunchucks??). But he said he taught balisong in New York, because it is only a misdemeanor in New York, and what's a little misdemeanor in New York? (Mat Marinas lives in the New York area.) Also, when you asked the individual reader how many different ways he can open (and presumably manipulate, twirl, slash, thrust or otherwise deploy, and then close) the balisong, did you mean with a live blade or a trainer? Jay de Leon ------------------------------ From: "Stephen Jones" Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 01:18:52 Subject: eskrima: Pushing Ratan and inherent problems Hello eskrimadors, I have been following the thread on popularity of the FMA, or the lack of. This email is a bit on the lengthy side and fits into the category of 'If I had more time I would write less', I mean no disprespect to anyone but hope that my experiences in the good and bad might possibly help others or spark debate or even help people make a happy club where there was previously not one. I have been pushing FMA in my state for the past few years and although I live in an area of low population density and have had some successes, I have overall had very little luck in promoting it. I've heard feedback from people asking things like: how come they dont all wear uniform? how safe is it? How long does it take to get to black belt? blah blah blah... A month ago I had one nutter show up and say that he was going to pledge the rest of his life to training in Arnis everyday and that he wouldn't miss a lesson, hehehe I never saw him again. I've also had people call me up at 3 in the morning etc. butI think you get this in all MAs to some extent. I agree with the points raised about the appearance of FMA classes being messy and confusing for new people. As training in FMA is based on developing individual's skills and flowing with your partner rather than say doing a kata or simple moves to the beat of the master's booming voice. The method to the madness is usually not apparent to outsiders. What people want for their kids and for their own development is often more of a general MA development including ideas of discipline, honour, and unarmed personal strength. I mean rather than defending yourself with a weapon, which in a straight up fight might be considered cheating and a sign of weakness. Therefore IMHO FMA will generally be less popular than unarmed fighting classes. Why? People are attracted to MA to feel personally strong rather than feel like they can use a weapon to defend themselves well. We often lose a lot of new students because new students need time to learn to coordinate their basic movements and this is character building stuff. Character building stuff is often what people seek to avoid in the modern world of instant gratification. In other martial arts you could teach a new student a taekwondo or karate form as these arts have been simplified long ago for this purpose. Students can do the stuff and still be uncoordinated and generally poor at the basics, but still keep up and feel important. Arnis has been simplified, or changed for the modern world, but it is still more complex and more challenging for students than any MA I have come across. Students need to do a lot of repetitions to get coordinated/unconsciously competent basics. To get movements to flow together with stick and leg work while remembering good basics to do drills and techniques is simple for people who have put practise in but is impossible without practise. This repetition is essential but boring, like bag work for a boxer. Students find this challenging for their egos when they realise they 'aint no instant Bruce Lee', they often leave. When people like this leave I dont mind too much as I would rather not waste my time on people who leave as soon as it gets interesting. Also I believe that if the art is simplified for teaching purposes too much then it loses some of its combat effectiveness and the point of learning the stuff in the first place. The best I can do is keep the group positive and clean looking, friendly and open. Our group does have an uninforced uniform an encourages involvement. We are newbie friendly. On another note, about the organisation of groups being personality based rather than organisation based - I agree and although a name brings people in - it more effectively can damage an organisation. Last month I was talking to a Filipino friend of mine who I have trained with on and off for a long time. He told me that in many Arnis clubs in the PI guys drink beer as they train to take the edge off and have fun. This worried me as his opinion of FMA in the PI was quite low. He seemed to think the best way for someone to teach Arnis is to make their own club and break away completely to make their own separate entity. To become involved with others could let in a bad element - aka politics, and people who want status. Politics can change the nature of FMA organisations and the way the arts are perceived. I have heard of a major Australian freestyle karate organisation who went to the PI to meet with Dionysio Canete they admit via their web page that they had very little Arnis knowledge. After a two week holiday the head of that organisation and about a half a dozen others were all given 5th dans in Diony's system to promote that brand of FMA. Black belts in the freestyle karate organisation can now do a 6 hour course, to get an instructors black belt in the FMA and get a teaching license. On a note more close to home. I first started training under Guro Dr. Lim in a FMA club about 8 and a half years ago. There were a group of advanced students who used to help out in this first club. Before the guro moved back to the PI almost all of these students had dropped out completely due to lack of interest or they felt they were better at the art than they really were and decided the couch was the best way to prove it. One of these students who was the exception, was essentially the front man for this club, myself and my brother kept the club running under a different premises to keep Arnis alive, continuing to teach the Guro's systems for the last 8 years. For the last 5 years it has only been my brother and I to keep the club alive. Noone else has helped to organise or foster Arnis from that group. Earlier this year one of the students who dropped out all that time ago paid for the Guro to fly back to this state from the PI after 7 years. We all got together and caught up as a group. I was surprised at how little people had changed. It was apparent who had kept the training up and who hadn't. The student who paid for him to come out has been unemployed for the last 8 years and constantly drank and smoked weed while a small group redeveloped the old syllabus in the hope of reviving the old group as one unit. One of the things we put in was that noone could be given a grade without a grading or get more than one rank per grading. On the last day of the Guro's stay the student got him drunk for the 100th time. She got to say who got what rank. She personally was graded from probationary black belt to 3rd dan in one hit and the same with most of the people there (about 4 ranks a pop). I nor anyone else who ran the only remaining club was invited to this little party, run by the student. Later noone knew what grade we were supposed to get so I basically said oh well I'll be 3rd dan too then. I have now resigned from that group as I know I have learned all the FMA I can from them and have been told that we are 'too good' and they dont want to spar us. 6 months after the Guro has left, noone is part of that group anymore except for that student who paid for his plane trip and we are the only club that is still running (now under an independent banner). My point is that the whole thing was so disorganised it brought our club into disrepute and made the whole thing seem like a con. Our goodwill and friendship was taken for granted while money talked and people who werent really interested in speading the FMA lied about how much they were involved in it to try and score points and bolster their own egos and rankings. We lost a reasonable amount of advanced students when we allowed the guro to take over our club temporarily, and then they cancelled the lesson to go to a restaurant or get drunk literally when the lesson was sposed to be running! We have now made our own club separate from this as we dont want to be associated with such a disorganised organisation our web site is at www.arnis.org.au. However, in fairness the Guro has effectively resigned and doesnt teach at all in the PI and doesnt want to be known as an eskrimador over there for fear of challenges. He got a free plane ride from a student who then effectively bought his product and killed the dead horse due to poor behaviour and lousy organisation. It might've worked out well but this student can't do 15 pushups, shows up to class stoned, changes the prices of things already bought, is lazy in class, talks about her shrink all the time, and is generally a counter-example for what we want from students. She teaches, albeit a tiny club. She has an assistant instructor who literally didnt know what 'guro' meant until I explained it. They aren't prepared to spar or discuss the shonky situation. After the Guro left it remained for us to teach her and in the end we had to kick her out due to the bad behaviour. So my point is breakaway do your own thing, intergroup politics can damage your club's integrity and that is bad for the FMA. Again I mean no offense to anyone I am just reporting IMHO. Regards, Steve. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 18:41:39 PST Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #515 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11!