From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #518 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Tues, 4 Dec 2001 Vol 08 : Num 518 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #516 eskrima: Kyokushinkai lightweights... and heavyweights eskrima: Anyone have experience with Waveman or similar water filled punching bags? eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #517 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #517 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #515 eskrima: Re: Chucks in CA eskrima: Kim Satterfield's FMA vs. Karate eskrima: What's the point of all these flashy Balisong openings? eskrima: Mime-Version: 1.0 Re: eskrima: Re: Chucks in CA eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://InayanEskrima.com Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Nereo C. Lujan" Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 07:18:26 +0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #516 A LITTLE TRIVIA Did you know that the word Balisong was coined after "bali songay?" Bali is a Hiligaynon word that means "break" and sungay means "horn" because before, the handle of the knife is made of black ivory or of carabao horn. >From: abanico-video-knuettel@t-online.de (Dieter =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Kn=FCttel?=) >Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 11:20:24 +0100 >Subject: eskrima: Balisong > >> Last issue R. Saturno wrote: " I would like to know how many different >> ways my fellow practitioners of the FMA have of opening this elegant >> weapon of our art. NO BS now . . . let's try not to exaggerate too >> badly now guys". > >Hi, > >I have issued 2 videos, that only show how to open and close the Balisong. >on tape one there is a lot of history and background information about the balisong >as well as 25 basic-techniques. In tape 2 I demonstrate 35 advanced techniques. > >You can fnd more information if you have a look at my homepage under: > >http://www.abanico.de > >Than go to the english pages and then click on the Balisong button. > >Best regards from Germany > >Dieter Knüttel >ABANICO Video Productions >http://www.abanico.de >http://www.modern-arnis.de ------------------------------ From: Tom Meadows Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 15:23:09 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Kyokushinkai lightweights... and heavyweights Greetings, Last issue Kim Satterfield wrote about the general lack of regard for Karate players amongst the FMA's.Karate has been the whipping boy for a long time in this area principally because of the large number of diploma mills out there and the resultant poorly educated practitioners and fighters. In my experience about 80% of Karate out their is quite poor, and the remaining 20% is absolutely superb and something to be feared. Don't ask me what I think of contemporary FMA practitioners cause nobody would like my answer. I don't like the answer I got. Regarding: " Case in point,...an Eskrima club I used to belong to here in Fort Wayne was invited to visit an out of town Kyokushinkai Karate club. FMA players were strutting around saying that they couldn't wait to teach these Karate people all about "real fighting." Kim missed a great opportunity to explain to the FMA students that Kyokushinkai is a no contact, point oriented style, just to bolster their courage.That would have made it all the more fun to watch.Any body in the FMA who doesn't know what Mas Oyama and his Kyukushinkai is, deserves the beating they get. The Hawiian Kenpos and Kempos are formidable and the names of their instructors and styles hould be known to all martial artists and FMA practitioners. Adraiano Emperado, Professor Chow, Professor Castro, Mas Oyama, James Mitose, Ed Parker, and yes, Dan Inosanto all practice the the Hawiiaan Karate arts. For those who don't know of Mas Oyama, he is probably best known for publicly beating bulls to death with his bare hands, recorded on film, and done more than once as well. Tender beef as I understand it... Karate be cool! Tom Meadows ------------------------------ From: Ed Lam Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 15:35:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: Anyone have experience with Waveman or similar water filled punching bags? Hello, I am in the market for a free standing punching bag to be used a home. What are your experiences with these products? Do they leak? Thanks. Ed __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping. http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: "Nereo C. Lujan" Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 07:46:31 +0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #517 I agree with you Kim. I am not a martial artist but a journalist and in one recent event that I covered, there's this city boy who was fond of bragging his skills in FMA. He claims his technique was the best and says he can beat anyone in his bracket. Then came an FMA fighter from the hinterlands who learned his skills not from the air-conditioned gyms in the city but in the windy hills of the hinterlands. Damn! He was soooo good! and the poor brag lost the fight! The point here is: Never brag unless you can prove yourself! >From: Kes41355@aol.com >Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 15:56:10 EST >Subject: eskrima: Re: FMA's vs, Karate, etc. > >Hi all, >This will probably piss of a lot of folks here, but what the heck? Here we >go.... > >I guess I am just a bit disheartened by the lack of respect that FMA >practitioners continue to have for "those other martial arts." Whenever an >example of what is considered to be a poor, ineffective, or less that evolved >martial art is needed, Karate is mentioned, as those that practice Karate and >related arts are seen to be poor, misguided, uninformed sheep, content to >follow the masses rather than the select few. As a long time practitioner of >both Eskrima and Karate, I travel in both circles. I find that Karateka are, >almost without exception, respectful and open to other martial artists and >their arts, whereas FMA practitioners, again almost without exception, look >upon Karate with complete and utter disdain. I know of several Karate black >belts that have my respect as complete and efficient fighters, and few FMA >players who can actually fight, having no practical experience in sparring >(damn, that's going to bring out the challenges, but so be it). Case in >point,...an Eskrima club I used to belong to here in Fort Wayne was invited >to visit an out of town Kyokushinkai Karate club. Before the meeting, the >FMA players were strutting around saying that they couldn't wait to teach >these Karate people all about "real fighting." I told them that they needed >to rethink that, because Kyokushinkai people can be tough to deal with. >Their response? "How bad can they be, they're Karate fighters, for God's >sake?" Well, needless to say, each and every FMA player got their clocks >cleaned, quite decisively, too, I might add. Granted, there are charlatans >in Karate, but the field is much more open for FMA charlatans, (which I know >of many), because of the general populations ignorance (and that is the FMA >communities fault, not the public's). The fakes in Karate generally don't >pass public scrutiny, because the public in well-informed about Karate, TKD, >etc. Eskrima is still something exotic, and I have heard as many BS stories >and false lineage's there as anywhere. > >I guess that what I am trying to say is that anytime we belittle another >group, we diminish ourselves. There is room for everyone, and we need to be >respectful of others' desires and needs...not everyone wants to be an >Eskrimador. Martial arts still serve other purposes than to turn the average >Joe into a commando warrior. > >Kim Satterfield ------------------------------ From: abanico-video-knuettel@t-online.de (Dieter =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Kn=FCttel?=) Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 00:56:30 +0100 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #517 > From: Ray Langley > Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 06:27:56 -0800 > Subject: eskrima: Hi Deiter > > Hi Deiter, "Cantonese" is the language/dialect most commonly spoken > in Hong Kong and Southern China. Mandarin is the dialect spoken > most often on the Mainland. If your student speaks Cantonese, he > should be able to find whatever he is looking for in Hong Kong, > including martial arts.... :-) > > Ray Langley, "Have Luo Pan, Will Travel!" Hi Ray, thanks for the information. In that case he speaks mandarin. He used to study for a year or so in mailand China Regards Dieter - -- Dieter Knüttel ABANICO Video Productions http://www.abanico.de http://www.modern-arnis.de ------------------------------ From: "apo.k.lypse" Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 01:54:49 +0100 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #515 hi steve, sounds bad, what you were experiencing. But beware of the doce guys reading your post. aside from that, another question that came to my mind: is it so, that large organisations (can) calm down things like "my guros's better than yours", when little to no organisation can be considered oil into fire to this kind of competition/flaming blah blah? just curious (gimme ur 2cents) achim from berlin. p.s. sorry for me inglish ------------------------------ From: Joshua Hutchinson Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 17:16:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: Re: Chucks in CA Greetings, I was told by a San Jose LEO that pulled me over a few years ago, that it's okay to transport chucks to and from the training hall as long as they're not readily accessible. He only noticed the chucks, swords and such after I had to open my trunk and empty my weapons bag to find my wallet. That's my 2 centavos. - -JHutchin ______________________________________________________________________________ Send a friend your Buddy Card and stay in contact always with Excite Messenger http://messenger.excite.com ------------------------------ From: "Jay de Leon" Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 16:14:32 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Kim Satterfield's FMA vs. Karate To Kim Satterfield: As a kindred spirit (I am both a "karate" and FMA instructor), I agree with your post, although I would like to think that such "karate bashing" is minimal, confined to the charlatans and the uninformed. A few random stories/thoughts prompted by your post: (1) I had the good fortune of working out with Matt Furey (the bald, buffed "Combat Wrestling" guy with the books and videos, who in my opinion is a real deal). During one of our friendly banters regarding styles, he said something like, "Easy for you to say, with a stick in your hands (and the other guy is unarmed)." And I said, not true, my FMA students will play the bareknuckle karate game, the ring kickboxing game, the ground grappling game, the "sports jiu-jitsu" game or any other martial arts "games" around. The point was, if I cannot play the game (not necessarily win, but hold my own), I do not have the right to criticize that game. (2) In the light of many people complaining about how hard it is to promote FMA, I have gone through the backdoor (of dojos, in a manner of speaking). Because of my karate background, in several instances I have started out teaching karate in a particular dojo, and then started teaching separate FMA classes or integrated FMA material in their regular classes. Needless to say, if you use this approach, you need some "karate credibility", otherwise, why should they pay attention to that foreign bill of goods you are peddling called arnis, eskrima or kali? (3) Even in RP, especially in Metro Manila, many FMA guros had some cross-training in MA. My own GM shuttled his hard-core students between tournaments in FMA, TKD and open karate tournaments, and their trophy count was not bad, either. Mr. Satterfield, just like my GM, I do not think you have to worry about challenges. Jay de Leon ------------------------------ From: Pete Sampogna Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 22:17:47 -0500 Subject: eskrima: What's the point of all these flashy Balisong openings? the point is simple in an ideal world every opening goes off without a hitch, however when crap hit the fan you may be left with a half opening, a handle transfer hell even an inadverdent aeral that you catch rather than lose your weapon Pete Sampogna ------------------------------ From: Luis Pellicer III Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 11:28:26 +0800 Subject: eskrima: Mime-Version: 1.0 >I know of several Karate black >belts that have my respect as complete and efficient fighters, and few FMA >players who can actually fight, having no practical experience in sparring >(damn, that's going to bring out the challenges, but so be it). Case in >point,...an Eskrima club I used to belong to here in Fort Wayne was invited >to visit an out of town Kyokushinkai Karate club. Before the meeting, the >FMA players were strutting around saying that they couldn't wait to teach >these Karate people all about "real fighting." I told them that they needed >to rethink that, because Kyokushinkai people can be tough to deal with. >Their response? "How bad can they be, they're Karate fighters, for God's >sake?" Well, needless to say, each and every FMA player got their clocks >cleaned, quite decisively, too, I might add >Kim Satterfield Last year some Kendo guys from Japan came over and gave a joint demonstration with some FMAers. When asked thier opinion on the FMA they saw, one indicated a two handed downward cut, and said "FINISHED". I heard the FMA demo looked good, lots of flourishes & fancy moves. Thier opinion was different. Sounds very similar to the Gung-Fu vs. Muay Thai challenges in the late 60's early 70's. Do you study and retain a hundred moves, or apply a few efficient ones which you do instinctively? The former will keep the typical student looking for "secrets" in the program longer, the latter will retain a smaller but hard-core group. I think. There's a world of difference between a well train Kyokoshin guy and a Karateka from the strip mall. I've seen the same between some hard-core TKD guys and the typical TKD sports fighter. Day and night. Isn't the same thing happening in the FMA? The question is an introspective one, it has to be dealt with devoid of ego. I'm sure that the Gung-Fu guys who went up against the Thais were convinced that they (Gung-Fu) were the real deal. Not that day. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 20:08:56 PST Subject: Re: eskrima: Re: Chucks in CA > I was told by a San Jose LEO that pulled me over a few years ago, that it's > okay to transport chucks to and from the training hall as long as they're > not readily accessible. He only noticed the chucks, swords and such after I > had to open my trunk and empty my weapons bag to find my wallet. CA Penal Code, section 12020(a) states: "... or possesses any cane gun or wallet gun, any undetectable firearm, any firearm which is not immediately recognizable as a firearm, any camouflaging firearm container, any ammunition which contains or consists of any flechette dart, any bullet containing or carrying an explosive agent, any ballistic knife, any multiburst trigger activator, any nunchaku, any ^^^^^^^^ short-barreled shotgun, any short-barreled rifle, any metal knuckles, any belt buckle knife, any leaded cane, any zip gun, any shuriken, any unconventional pistol, any lipstick case knife, any cane sword, any shobi-zue, any air gauge knife, any writing pen knife, or any instrument or weapon of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, slungshot, billy, sandclub, sap, or sandbag, or who carries concealed upon his or her person any explosive substance, other than fixed ammunition, or who carries concealed upon his or her person any dirk or dagger is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison." Thus simple possession can get you in trouble in CA. What the LEO was probably saying is that they won't usually enforce this section of the PC -unless- they are looking for a reason to bust you. i.e you're causing a problem and then they notice the chuks. Bingo, you just gave them sufficient reason to take you in. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 20:13:05 PST Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #518 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11!