From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #519 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Wed, 5 Dec 2001 Vol 08 : Num 519 In this issue: Re: eskrima: Anyone have experience with Waveman or similar water filled eskrima: Kung Fu / Muay Thai eskrima: Link Trade eskrima: to Kim Satterfield eskrima: Re: Kimspeak: FMA's vs, Karate, etc. eskrima: Re: Karate vs. FMA's part 2... eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #518 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #518 eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://InayanEskrima.com Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 20:20:00 PST Subject: Re: eskrima: Anyone have experience with Waveman or similar water filled > I am in the market for a free standing punching > bag to be used a home. What are your experiences > with these products? Do they leak? Thanks. I have a Century Wavemaster, I think it is the second generation design. Seems ok thus far. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: kalkiusa@netscape.net Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 23:30:10 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Kung Fu / Muay Thai In international competitions btwn Kung Fu San Shou and Muay Thai, the Chinese don't like the Muay Thai elbows ... the Thais don't like the San Shou throws (Shuai Chiao), which the Chinese use to knockout effect. My kung fu teacher used to send people to prep with his Thai buddies before full contact fights. Elbows? Shuai Chiao? "Good kung fu" includes use of both ... and any thing else that might 'transmit' pain, injury or whatever's necessary to stop an assailant. Just a humble $0.02 worth of noise from me ... back to lurk . . . Mitakuye Oyasin. be well, mik - -- __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ------------------------------ From: ABurrese@aol.com Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 23:53:54 EST Subject: eskrima: Link Trade Hey everyone, I've been working on a new website. It has a long ways to go, but I'm slowly getting things added to it. Please check it out at: www.burrese.com Let me know if you have a site you want me to add to the link page, and please add mine to yours. Thanks! Let me know what else I should be adding too. Thanks again! Yours in Training, Alain Burrese www.burrese.com ------------------------------ From: Roland Isla Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 13:22:57 +0800 Subject: eskrima: to Kim Satterfield Hello, I agree with everything you said. It does all martial arts a disservice for any martial artist to disparage or caricature another art. Karate and taekwondo have been victims of this, and so has the FMA (mostly by other Filipinos). Living here in the Philippines, while finding martials artists isn't as easy as North America, I found that the serious ones really are very good. Many of the most skilled, toughest hombres I've seen are karate and taekwondo people. And most of them also do arnis. The groups with the toughest reputation here, Yaw Yan and Sari an, in fact was founded by people who did karate, arnis and other arts. As for that challenge, I'd like to challenge you, Kim to come down to Manila sometime for a drinking and eating bout. Then we can see how good our arnis or whatever martial art you want is after a dozen Red Horse beers (trust me it's nothing like the light, pleasant San Miguel beer that's so popular), several plates of sisig, some balut and maybe a bowl or two of dinuguan. Then we can test our arts under real world conditions :) With regard to inter style challenge matches, ie. muay thai vs gung fu, and some kendo practitioners' perception of FMA. Gung fu has not done as badly against muay thai as many would believe. In fact san shou fighters do have victories over thai fighters (usually by picking them up and dropping them on their heads.) And to quote what Luis Pellicer wrote about a kendo player's perception, "one indicated a two handed downward cut, and said "FINISHED" - a downward cut using what weapon? A sword? Sorry but there's just no civilized way to test this. One of their kendo sticks? And what is "finished", does the strike indicate a point and cessation of the game or do they continue until one can't anymore. Maybe the kendo person should play and exchange with the FMA people. Who knows, maybe both their arts would benefit. Thanks, Roland Isla ------------------------------ From: Patrick Davies Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 09:48:04 -0000 Subject: eskrima: Re: Kimspeak: FMA's vs, Karate, etc. Hi Kim, speaking as someone from a different part of the world we maybe get it from a different point of view. Over here the FMA is still - taking the UK as a whole - in its infancy, aligned to the JKD groups although the exploits of Doce Pares to mention one may have changed that. People like Guro Bob Breen have of course been at the forefront with the WKAEF for years. Its not the art but the instructors that do those other arts injustice, turning them into commercial money machines sanitised for public consumption. Hence in the commercial competitive business they announce anyone else as cowboys and without world governing bodies. So when Mr Smith who has taken Tim and Sharon along for their first lesson asks about the pad hitting people wearing t shirts and shorts he wil receive an answer that relates to future income for the instructor rather than the art. That has slowly started to redress itself with many renown karateka cross training with some well known athletes but its funny how some of these systems suddenly have ground fighting in their curriculum. Terry O'Neil in his Fighting Arts magazine was one of the first to blow away the bs by crediting the indonesian arts for edged superiority in the early 90's, something that some karateka had problems dealing with. Kyokushinkai as you rightly mentioned is full of well disciplined psychopaths but even the Karates and TKDs frown on them. Ive seen some eskrima people - who can twirl a stick and open a balisong - haul their guts up from the floor and waddle about and ive seen some real JKD guys tell me that their pak sao will work in real life. I know of really good Judo guys who have been beaten up in a street fight. I always find it amusing to look at that first UFC tape with arts that used to brag about their unbeatable techniques which you really don't hear about now. Having been there done it, seen it and - mostly - at times run from it I can honestly say it's the person and not the art. I know karateka that have trained for 15 years and are awsome while other black belts on testosterone are a complete waste of time except in a competition environment. Ive seen guys who have never trained take out black belts and I have seen students with no ranking who have trained hard survive vicious attacks. Your point is valid but in an international arena the balance is different. We should all respect each other even if we know that we are the best! ; ) However the respect is lost in search of the pound/dollar/(insert currency here) which sees the platform for creating a false platform for business expediency. However I daresay you know all this anyway! Pat Davies Aberdeen Martial Arts Group www.amag.org.uk ------------------------------ From: Kes41355@aol.com Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 06:45:42 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Karate vs. FMA's part 2... Hello all, I have to qualify my last post by saying that I am extremely fortunate to have had the teachers I've had, both in Karate and Eskrima. My Eskrima teacher, Rob McDonald, learned Eskrima the old way, in Mike Inay's backyard, and although it was an often painful path, I would not have had it any other way. I've had a few FMA teachers, but Rob taught me how to fight, period. I never have to wonder if anything he teaches will work for real; we've already tested it. My favorite Karate instructor, Richard Hardin, meant business when he taught, and he insisted we "get into the water." He did not believe in any diluted forms of martial art; we were there to learn to defend ourselves, and learn we did. Richard remains one of the most dangerous fighters I've ever met. And, both of these men also teach, along with practicality, the awesome responsibilty we as martial artists have, to preserve our arts, and to not abuse them. Neither Richard nor Rob put up with anyone disrespecting the arts, or with someone looking to only add to their fighting repertoire. Bullies, thugs, and BSer's were sent elsewhere. Kim Satterfield ------------------------------ From: Kes41355@aol.com Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 06:48:23 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #518 In a message dated 12/4/01 7:45:39 PM Pacific Standard Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Kim missed a great opportunity to explain to the FMA students that Kyokushinkai is a no contact, point oriented style, just to bolster their courage.That would have made it all the more fun to watch.Any body in the FMA who doesn't know what Mas Oyama and his Kyukushinkai is, deserves the beating they get. >> Hi Tom, I gotta tell ya, the temptation was there to set these guys up, but I just couldn't do it....and I do agree with your assessment of modern day martial arts. It seems they are either very good, or very bad, not much middle ground. Kim ------------------------------ From: "Kimberley Hobbs" Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 08:36:07 -0330 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #518 Hi Ed (and everyone else), I have been pretty quiet of late but thought I would add my two cents worth here. We use Wavemasters at our JKD/FMA school because there is nowhere to hang heavy bags. They are okay for smaller people (like me) but the bigger guys and gals tend to topple them over. They do leak , mostly at the top. The covers don't seem to give a tight seal. Adjusting the height of the bag can be a pain -you have to slide and twist to lock the bag in place, but if you are the only person using the bag this is not a problem. On a positive note, I am grateful for them because otherwise our students wouldn't get any work on the bag in class. Kim Hobbs Diversified Combat Systems St. John's, NF Canada >From: Ed Lam >Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 15:35:48 -0800 (PST) >Subject: eskrima: Anyone have experience with Waveman or similar water >filled punching bags? > >Hello, > >I am in the market for a free standing punching >bag to be used a home. What are your experiences >with these products? Do they leak? Thanks. > >Ed _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 6:50:37 PST Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #519 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. 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