To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sender: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rayreq@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Unsubscribe: Message-Id: <20020119204325.A43DDCA1@cuprel1.hp.com> Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 12:43:25 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://InayanEskrima.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Tom: Anybody that can't over her gender or height (johnaleen) 2. Misc (Pentjakker) 3. adrenal lock-up! (q) 4. Tom: Anybody that can't over her gender or height (johnaleen) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "johnaleen" To: Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 23:51:39 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Tom: Anybody that can't over her gender or height Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Dear Tom, i do believe i stated that i was responding just to the one comment that this other person made about the video, and i believe as well that i said that if its an equal representation on the floor by both female and male that it changes things to a positive. but i am sorry, flat out, that i have to state now based on my experience with teaching woman, and men, that only showing a man demonstrating on a woman with no equal show of techniques in return on her own right is not that positive of an example for someone who have never taken an art or a self defense class, and the average person or woman out there in the community at large that dose not have training or has trained in an art or self defense do not see it in a positive light. As far as training at inosanto academy, I believe what your talking about is training in class at the academy. what i was referencing to is totally different case with this other person and video tape, when i made my comment i was referencing news articles, and a video tape. each of my personal experiences training at the inosanto academy, and under Guro Dan and his team of teachers have always been very positive and its never been about using a woman as a tool... the give and take has always been there when i have trained either at the academy or here when they are in town. again please note i stated what i did based solely on the comment made by this one person that was reviewing the tape. again... i did state this....... and i also stated that i have not seen the video. ********* Tom wrote: Frankly the observations about it "looking bad" to see a man hit a woman, or using a training partner that is shorter are completely invalid and do nothing but perpetuate the ignorance of the masses. Tom wrote: Anybody that can't over her gender or height in the tapes is a wee bit of an undeveloped human being and not an ideal marketing target in any event. ************ i am going to ask you a question, not because i need an answer but more based on your comment and because i would like others to think about it on a personal level, because i know some of the answers to this question. As far as marketing? why is it there are so few woman in the arts? or why is it that the average woman even though every police department nationally, has stated flat out that its the average woman that needs to protect herself and either take a martial art or self defense and awareness class to survive a violent attack in are society today? how come they are not doing it? Do you have any clue how small the majority is of woman that are fully blackbelted and ranked in an most of the martial arts as a whole? let alone the few that train or take a martial art compared to the number of men that do? Ms. J...... " Well Behaved Women Seldom Make History" --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Pentjakker" To: Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 09:32:15 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Misc Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Its as we would call Modern Silat ..or Concepts...and a names a name. So why not call it that? More integrity in advertising! ;) And why not have Addy H. do the techniques and drop a much larger opponent? It easy for someone twice the size of their opponent to drop them. Switching the situation requires definite techical skill to pull off realistically. > You probably know all this from your experience, as well. So, > doesn't it bug you to see techniques presented that seem to > depend on an opponent that is pliable and ready to "respond" by > bending over violently, or drawing back in surprise at each > strike? Absolutely. Poignant post Jeff. That is why IMO aggressive beginners are fun to work with! A dose of reality. Regards, Travis --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "q" To: Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 08:05:43 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] adrenal lock-up! Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello Jeff and Tom, I have been to both places. There is no problem with Burt hanging the stick out. That is how you convey martial mechanics which is most of what happens in school settings. And you will learn those mechanics faster with an educated partner. Adrenalized learning is a different feature. Among other things, it attempts to program in reactions and responses (martial mechanics) . The adrenal state is different for different people. There are some who theorize that we need to train out the adrenal lock-up by increasing the realisim in training. This may help and it may hurt. Some people freeze and can't work when adrenalized. Some people need the adrenaline to heighten there senses and peak their performance. There is a balance. Martial arts is about self-discovery and achieving balance. The person who performs to the best of his ability is the one who knows himself the best. The right mentality and attitude are externally taught in many venues but internally learned by your culmanations of all experiences and changes as you accumulate new experiences. No matter what happens "all training is training" and can give you a false impression of how you react mentally. Mental toughness in one venue is not always transferable into another venue. There is no substitute for real combat. Even a live fire Marine excercise may get your butt moving but you know a support network is there in the back of your head. Somehow the situation changes when you know it is just you and your team in a jungle somewhere and you hope the logistical support is there. Regards, Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S. Torrance, Ca. > From: "Jeff T. Inman" > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Cc: jti@ncgr.org > Subject: [Eskrima] Re: "educated" training partners > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > TomMeadows > > At the Inosanto Academy one of the first lessons you learn is that it is > > just as important to learn how to feed techniques as it is to receive them. > > The experienced students hook up with a good partner who can feed them > > properly and the speed of learning is greatly increased. It can easily take > > a year or more to develop this kind of training rapport with a partner. > Dude. I know you're for real, so don't take this personally. > > I pretty much lost interest in training martial arts in a class > setting, after several years with the Dog Brothers, precisely > because of this kind of "educated" training partner that you find > in classes. My experience with adrenalinized opponents has > taught me that they don't act at all like they are supposed to. > They don't bend over when their ribs are broken, for example. > They don't stop fighting when the frikking wind is knocked out of > them, until 10 or 15 seconds later when their body runs out of > anaerobic juice. They don't do any of the things that training > partners do, because they aren't training! > > You probably know all this from your experience, as well. So, > doesn't it bug you to see techniques presented that seem to > depend on an opponent that is pliable and ready to "respond" by > bending over violently, or drawing back in surprise at each > strike? Cripes! If someone that I had to fight was going to > stand there and let me have a good shot at them like that, I > wouldn't want to waste it with a "technique". You know what I > mean? Or, rather, if the opponent is that loose, they probably > aren't really a serious threat. . Adrenalinized people are hard and stiff and rigid, > just like that, and they don't flinch much when hurt. > > I guess most of us strive through our training to attain a more > fluid presence in crisis, a capability to move and react in a > fight, and so maybe an experienced opponent does look more > pliable. So, maybe using a pliable opponent for demonstration > could be an attempt to convey a more seasoned opponent. But the > seasoned guy (of whatever gender) also knows that if the attacker > gets you to react to the first shot, he's probably got something > else coming after it, too, so you had better start doing > something surprising pretty quick. > > Whatever. Maybe we agree about all this. > > I don't watch technique tapes much, but there was a funny bit in > a Burton Richardson tape, where he's joking about how eskrima > students laugh at the phony-looking punch feeds that you see in > karate drills, or whatever, and then they say, "okay, so suppose > I'm attacking with a stick ..." and he holds the stick out in > one of those phony-looking angle-1's, exactly the way you've seen > it done thousands of times in classes, but never ONCE in a fight. Ha! --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "johnaleen" To: Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 11:38:53 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Tom: Anybody that can't over her gender or height Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Dear Tom, i do believe i stated that i was responding just to the one comment that this other person made about the video, and i believe as well that i said that if its an equal representation on the floor by both female and male that it changes things to a positive. but i am sorry, flat out, that i have to state now based on my experience with teaching woman, and men, that only showing a man demonstrating on a woman with no equal show of techniques in return on her own right is not that positive of an example for someone who have never taken an art or a self defense class, and the average person or woman out there in the community at large that dose not have training or has trained in an art or self defense do not see it in a positive light. As far as training at inosanto academy, I believe what your talking about is training in class at the academy. what i was referencing to is totally different case with this other person and video tape, when i made my comment i was referencing news articles, and a video tape. each of my personal experiences training at the inosanto academy, and under Guro Dan and his team of teachers have always been very positive and its never been about using a woman as a tool... the give and take has always been there when i have trained either at the academy or here when they are in town. again please note i stated what i did based solely on the comment made by this one person that was reviewing the tape. again... i did state this....... and i also stated that i have not seen the video. ********* Tom wrote: Frankly the observations about it "looking bad" to see a man hit a woman, or using a training partner that is shorter are completely invalid and do nothing but perpetuate the ignorance of the masses. Tom wrote: Anybody that can't over her gender or height in the tapes is a wee bit of an undeveloped human being and not an ideal marketing target in any event. ************ i am going to ask you a question, not because i need an answer but more based on your comment and because i would like others to think about it on a personal level, because i know some of the answers to this question. As far as marketing? why is it there are so few woman in the arts? or why is it that the average woman even though every police department nationally, has stated flat out that its the average woman that needs to protect herself and either take a martial art or self defense and awareness class to survive a violent attack in are society today? how come they are not doing it? Do you have any clue how small the majority is of woman that are fully blackbelted and ranked in an most of the martial arts as a whole? let alone the few that train or take a martial art compared to the number of men that do? Ms. J...... " Well Behaved Women Seldom Make History" PS. this has nothing to do with short people the same dude i was talking about in the first letter is a half inch shorter then me, and i am a whopping 5 foot 7 inches tall. anyway i am sort of confused as how being short has anything to do with my letter.... shrug..... --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest