To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sender: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Unsubscribe: Status: OR Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<------------- The Eskrima Digest mailing list ------------->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. 1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://InayanEskrima.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. A misunderstanding on a question (rich parsons) 2. Simo Paula (TomMeadows) 3. Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #30 - 2 msgs (Bladewerkrr@aol.com) 4. Re: Simonet tapes (Absolom Jones) 5. Seeking info on Jason Kilgore/Sierra Foothills (Allen Eastwood) 6. Sundry (Marc Denny) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 05:56:51 -0800 (PST) From: rich parsons To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] A misunderstanding on a question Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net To Terry, Pac Vic, and everyone else, When I asked the question, it was not meant for just this art and situation. In fact I had intended it to be a generic question on Certificates and having some form of date when they certificate goes invalid. The question was what is the purpose of this date and why did the procedure have to be implemented? As for the comment I made about if certificates were issued at all, was a poor choice of words. I really meant from my education that the 'Old Schools' in the PI did not give out certificates. I mean did Angel Cabales have a certificate? How about Remy Presas? I would think not. They had been given their training from their instructors and were told that they could teach. Once again I apologize to anyone who misunderstood my question. It was not meant to cause problems. Have a nice Day Rich Parsons "Everything Zen" - Bush (The band, not a politician) -- __--__-- From: Terry Tippie I find myself as being rather 'old school' in my thinking about personnel problems within an another art. My advice to students on an issue such as this is as follows: Am you a member of this system? (no, in my case) If not, then do not worry about political or personnel problems that exist in other martial arts systems. This stuff comes up once in a while. BUT it is not your business. If you have time and energy to worry about the internal affairs of other arts then you should be working harder. Try 500 kicks on each leg. Then do 1000 situps. Then do 500 pushups. If you still have enough energy to worry about arts that are not yours then call me and I'll set up a special program for you. In any case Pak Vic should be treated with great respect as the head of a system. Do not argue with or show disrespect towards this man. I would underscore this last point with my own students. Failure to show respects should be dealt considered a serious offense. Regards, Terry Tippie -- __--__-- Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "TomMeadows" To: Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 07:55:16 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Simo Paula Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Greetings, Regarding:" I am impressed with Paula Inosanto and only wished I was half as good as she is." I guess I have to raise my sights, I have been working for years just to get a quarter as good as she is. Tom Meadows --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Bladewerkrr@aol.com Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 10:57:07 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #30 - 2 msgs Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 1/23/02 2:02:44 AM Pacific Standard Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: << It is just that YOU HAVE TO GET PEOPLE TO CLASS TO TEACH THEM ANYTHING. It just does not make good marketing sense if you are trying to get the timid, uninformed, (women or men) who would greatly benefit from a self defense class to scare them away >> I understand that and agree completely but where did we go from knocking Joe Simonet for "beating up on poor Ms. Hernandez" to this marketing layout? I agree that marketing to a target audience requires such specifics, but the original was about the use of Ms. Hernandez and that was what I was replying to. Bear --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Absolom Jones" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:02:31 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Simonet tapes Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "Todd Ellner" > >Look, guys, I already said that Joe Simonet has done a lot of martial > >arts. And he's big and strong. He's really good at what he does. But >his >"Serak Concepts" tape is garbage as far as Serak is concerned. Am I under the wrong impression, because I thought that the Simonet tape is under the title "Silat Concepts"? >I can dig up my notes and print excerpts from them if you want. What >mistakes are you most interested in? The (beginner's) problems with his >form? His misunderstanding of basics? His blindness to principles and >applications that second year student would probably understand? >Handwork? >Footwork? Langkas? Djurus? Poor appreciation of distance? >Bad balance and >body mechanics? He's putting out misunderstanding and >misinformation on >all of them. And that's just the empty hand stuff. Are you saying that there is only one way this art can be done? There are no allowences for body type, muscle structure and mobility considerations? Your note would be if interest, especially if they are the definative word on the art. >He's never studied Serak. He gets it wrong. And if he was careful to >avoid >actually telling lies he dissembled and shaded the truth enough >as makes >no difference. But if he is doing silat concepts, what is the problem? You need to give some examples of what he stated and then provide us with the definative truth from your position. >Yeah, he's studied Tongkat. Got a Black Belt in it. He deserves credit >for >the time and effort. When I called Pak Victor to ask do some fact >checking >he insisted that Joe Simonet's Tongkat skill and >understanding were >absolutely legitimate. Even if he (Victor de >Thoaurs) was really irked >with him. Would silat concepts not apply to Tongkat? If not, please explain. I have attended three seminars with Simonet and I felt that he taught and explained the concepts of silat and applications to kenpo and kali in an informative manner. Given that I hold a 3rd degree black belt in Kenpo and I have studied Tai Chi Chuan (martial applications) I was very comfortable with the ideas that Simonet presented. >But Tongkat isn't Serak. >It's derived from it. It gives you a good base if you want to study the >parent art later. But if my tiny exposure to it is any indication it >bears >about the same relation to Serak as does, say Bukti Negara. If >you go >through one of the carrier systems and then learn the parent >art you spend >a lot of time going "Oh! So THAT'S what it was about!" I have a problem with your notion that one has to get into Serak to find out "... That's what it is all about!" What were you doing in the "feeder system"? I suspect that if one really studied and applied themselves to the sstudy of the feeder system, then the time put into the parent system, Serek, would be spent on refinement and newer methods of application. Thinking and discovery are important tools in my program. I am guessing that Simonet has taken ideas, information and past applicatiuons of motion, blended them and discovered the concepts that he needs to move ahead in his development. >Mike Janich's interest in this seems to be to stir up some controversy >so >that he can sell tapes. Fair enough. It's good to know where a man >stands >on these things. His opinions on what constitutes "the real >deal" in >something he's never studied let alone mastered are as >meaningful as mine >would be at a piano competition; I couldn't carry a >tune if it had >handles. But if Janich has done his job as an editor and developer of programs for video production, I am sure that he did not rely solely on his own judgements. And given that he has been in contact with numerous people in the silat area of the arts, given his location in Colorado, close to Willhem de Thouras, the decesion to make the Simonet tapes would have been reasonable. >Before anyone else says it I'll do the full disclosure thing. I studied >Bukti Negara with Stevan Plinck and got as far as Guru Muda >certification >before he stopped teaching it. Now I'm in his Serak >class. It will be >years before my skills are up to anything Guru >standards. Interesting... Arnisman@aol.com, wrote: >I don't usually post.. I read the digest and go on.. >but the inane comments about Joe's tapes and the comments about Mike > >Janich and Addy are too much.. >Gee ms J..why not try watching something before you go off and post a > >comment based on someone elses poor viewing? Good point. >Joe did not make a fool of himself nor degrade any one by using Addy >in >the tape. Shes a great instructor and understands the flow of what >Joe is >doing. Having a good partner is essential on an instructional tape. >Mike Janich is not only a renowned author, but one of THE Knife > >instructors and knife designers in our current times. >He teaches Serrada..(suprise!) and he's the Chief Instructor for the >new >SPYDERCO MBC program.. And your point is that Mike Janich is not merely an editor at Paladin. He has some martial arts background, so he is some experience in the related arts of from the SE Asian Islands. He is neither the novice or the crass commericalists that Todd Ellner seems to be implying in his comments. >and Todd..that is your name right? Not necessary, Bram. >The tapes? Well as usual they are outstanding PALADIN PRESS quality.. >Joe's understanding, and teaching of what he knows is valid. >Guro Victor is unhappy with it? Thats his privlege.. >I have great respect for Guro Victor.. >You don't like it ..Fine.. The basic point that Pak Victor acknowledges that Simonet has the ranking and knowledge to teach the version of Silat that he has put forward on his tapes. There reaaly should not be a major arguement since the confirmation is coming from the ead Man in the Tongkat system, Todd's opinions not withstanding. Respectfully, Absolom _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:05:27 -0600 From: Allen Eastwood To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Seeking info on Jason Kilgore/Sierra Foothills Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi all! Does anyone know of or have any personal experience with Jason Kilgore of Sierra Foothills Karate? A few weeks ago I ended up on his mailing list and got e-mail from him asking to be affiliated with my school. Thanks in advance! -Allen --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 11:34:01 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Sundry Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All: A couple of interesting threads to which I'd like to contribute a quick yip: 1) Using women as assistants: Simo Paula is a badass, (I once saw an incident outside and out of view where someone came within a fraction of a hair of being seriously taken out by her) and as noted by previous comments here, a high level martial artist. Sometimes I go to her for help with my knife. However as far as the discussion here goes, when Guro Inosanto uses her, he is already coming in with his personal credibility and that of what he is teaching already established. His audience is often already at a good level and capable of understanding what is being taught without having to see it done on a large muscled guy. Story: At a training camp in 1989 there had been a wild incident and when it came time for Guro I. to teach he used me instead of Simo Paula. Understand, normally I am one of the last people he would ever use to demonstrate, but on this day he wanted someone larger and more physically substantial to thump on. "What do you want me to do Guro?" "Anything. Doesn't matter." And it didn't. It was one of the most awesome (and frightening!) experiences of my life. He went into Warp Speed and then some. Its not that Simo couldn't have handled it, but it was more effective communication to do it on me. In my own teaching it is the same thing. If I have an audience of large fit young men of a NHB mindset, demoing on 150 lb Shaggy the artist or 170 lb Pappy Dog the musician will not communicate, and 230 lb Dogzilla the federal prison guard will. It has nothing to do with them, but the audience. If I have an audience with people at a level to understand more technical points, then Shaggy or Pappy would be the better call. It is not not sexism to apply the same principles to women assistants, to the contrary it would be "pedestalism" :-) to not apply these principles to them as well. 2) Tom the Whip & Jeff "Sleeping Dog" Inman had an interesting bit recently. I thought both had merit-- that's why in my own training I do both -- the cooperative training thing and fighting. Of course by itself CT can leave you clueless, but if you have fighting as part of your training, then that is not likely. I love being in Guro I's Maphilindo class and find it stimulates my thinking deeply. (The Kali class does have sparring so I don't mention it here) If I passed on it because it was cooperative, I would have much less to bring to a fight. Fighting only leaves one in the danger not only stagnation as a fighter, but of the path coming to an end-- people get stale sometimes if all they do is fight. 3) Certification expirations: My thought here is that both approaches can be valid. It can be like a diploma, or it can be like a license. With DBMA certifications need to be renewed, just like my certification under Guro I. There are three basic reasons for this. One is character. I want Dog Brothers Martial Arts to be known for the same kind of character and integrity as the Dog Brothers and want to have a way to graciously ease out someone whose trajectory in these areas I am not comfortable with. The second is that the system is dynamic. Someone who stopped training in DBMA 5 years ago is simply not current and I would not want the system to be represented by them. If I am comfortable with the person, then I might say "certified on material through date X, or "inactive status", but I don't want to accumulate a lot of dead wood. DBMA certification is not for people looking to accumulate certs. It is an ongoing commitment. The third is that sometimes people lose it. They get out of shape, they stop training, etc. Again, I do not want the DBMA flag to be carried by such people. Woof, Crafty Dog PS: Animal, thanks for the update. If you can get your hands on the actual report for us that would be great. Woof, --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest