To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sender: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Unsubscribe: Status: OR Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<------------- The Eskrima Digest mailing list ------------->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. 1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://InayanEskrima.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Re: Simonet tapes (Ray Terry) 2. FMA or silat in Charlotte, NC? (rklampfer@mindspring.com) 3. Simonet Tapes (Michael Roberto) 4. Re-certifying Certs (jose saguisabal) 5. Stevan Plinck's new video (AnimalMac@aol.com) 6. Rangking in Tongkat (Seraksatu@aol.com) 7. Re: Ms J bows to G Hudgins (johnaleen) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Simonet tapes To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 12:40:59 PST Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Am I under the wrong impression, because I thought that the Simonet tape is > under the title "Silat Concepts"? The video is Silat Concepts, but the description indicates... ========================================= By Joseph Simonet. Two tape series. In this revolutionary two tape set, silat expert Joseph Simonet presents step by step instruction in the first six jurus of Serek and shows you how to apply the movements from these forms. Also learn how to make and use the pantjar and tiga that hold the key to all silat footwork. Finally, he reveals the secrets that are the heart of Serek's effectiveness. ========================================= --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:08:14 -0500 From: To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] FMA or silat in Charlotte, NC? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I recently moved to Charlotte, NC and am searching for a FMA or silat instructor in this area. If anyone can steer me in the right direction, I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks in advance. -- Robert --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Michael Roberto To: "'eskrima@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 12:53:11 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Simonet Tapes Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Selamat, >Am I under the wrong impression, because I thought that the Simonet tape is >under the title "Silat Concepts"? You are under the wrong impression, because it purports to find "the fight within the form of Silat Serak", and then goes on to demonstrate Serak djurus and speculates from there. The next videos purport to show the remaining 18 "Serak Djurus". Silat Concepts is a smoke screen, to be used by spin doctors. The marketing appeal of the tapes was deliberately tied to the name "Serak". >Are you saying that there is only one way this art can be done? There are >no allowences for body type, muscle structure and mobility considerations? >Your note would be if interest, especially if they are the definative word >on the art. Transparent baiting on your part, not worthy of a response. I'll give it shot, though. You are right--Joe shows how a person with one or two video lessons of the djurus and who power lifts, and who's primary movement comes from years and years of Kempo, might do it. So all the 225lb powerlifting Kempo guys who don't want to learn Serak should run out and buy the tapes. >But if he is doing silat concepts, what is the problem? You need to give >some examples of what he stated and then provide us with the definative >truth from your position. If people buy his tapes because the marketing claims that he he knows Serak and can extract and demonstrate concepts from Serak, then they have wasted their money. More "Concepts" spin to confuse the issue. >Would silat concepts not apply to Tongkat? If not, please explain. >I have attended three seminars with Simonet and I felt that he taught and >explained the concepts of silat and applications to kenpo and kali in an >informative manner. Given that I hold a 3rd degree black belt in Kenpo and >I have studied Tai Chi Chuan (martial applications) I was very comfortable >with the ideas that Simonet presented. So you know Serak, then? >I have a problem with your notion that one has to get into Serak to find out >"... That's what it is all about!" What were you doing in the "feeder >system"? I suspect that if one really studied and applied themselves to the >sstudy of the feeder system, then the time put into the parent system, >Serek, would be spent on refinement and newer methods of application. >Thinking and discovery are important tools in my program. Up until Pak Vic and Guru Plinck started teaching Serak openly, the "feeder" systems as you call them were as close as one could get to Serak. It is not spelled "Serek". >I am guessing Yes, you are, about a few things you have no real exposure to. >that Simonet has taken ideas, information and past applicatiuons of motion, >blended them and discovered the concepts that he needs to move ahead in his >development. Yes, that's his deal. More power to him. The "ideas, information and past applicatiuons of motion", just don't happen to include Serak. >But if Janich has done his job as an editor and developer of programs for >video production, I am sure that he did not rely solely on his own >judgements. You're sure? What do you base that on? >And given that he has been in contact with numerous people in >the silat area of the arts, given his location in Colorado, close to Willhem >de Thouras, the decesion to make the Simonet tapes would have been >reasonable. The first name is spelled "Willem", the last name "deThouars". I'm sure you knew that and didn't mean any disrespect to this family. I'm sure that Janich didn't attempt to contact Joe's teacher, Maha Guru Muda Robert Vanatta, in Colorado. Nor did he attempt to contact Pak Victor. Pak Willem doesn't speak for Serak, as he'd tell you himself. >Interesting... Why? >And your point is that Mike Janich is not merely an editor at Paladin. >He has some martial arts background, so he is some experience in the related >arts of from the SE Asian Islands. He is neither the novice or the crass >commericalists that Todd Ellner seems to be implying in his comments. He doesn't know Serak (so he's a novice in Serak), and never checked with Joe's teachers, even though they're right in his neighborhood. He writes this huge letter to IKF just prior to a huge article that he also wrote about Joe in the same rag. He sells Joe's "Serak djurus" tapes. In this context he is exactly what Todd implied, if he implied that. >and Todd..that is your name right? >Not necessary, Bram. Huh? >The basic point that Pak Victor acknowledges that Simonet has the ranking >and knowledge to teach the version of Silat that he has put forward on his >tapes. Not when he calls it Serak. >There reaaly should not be a major arguement since the confirmation >is coming from the ead Man in the Tongkat system, Todd's opinions not >withstanding. Really wierd spin on your part. >Respectfully, >Absolom I don't believe you intended it respectfully. I'm not going to go back and forth after this on this digest. The readers of this list know enough at this point to form their own opinion either way. Continued best wishes in blending your Kempo with Taijichuan. Selamat, Mike --__--__-- Message: 4 To: "e-d" Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:20:07 -0800 From: "jose saguisabal" Organization: Lycos Mail (http://mail.lycos.com:80) Subject: [Eskrima] Re-certifying Certs Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I understand that we all tend to evolve after achieving advanced rank in the martial arts, but I don't know about expiring a rank certificate with a student because someone: a. gets out of shape b. doesn't continue research under you c. doesn't continue research at all (besides, let's say, teaching) d. moves on When we promote students in the FMA, it is often called "graduating" a student. My bachelor's degree doesn't have an expiration date on it; if it did, that would mean I wouldn't be able to get a new job in 10 years. Many manong I've spoken to draw a difference between one who has achieved an "expert" status and "teaching credentials". You can't take away someone's knowledge and ability to teach others. People get sick, get old, pursue other goals, and who am I to say that your knowledge is invalid. Re-certifying seems to be more of a commercial dojo practice than that of an FMA. When certificates expire, does that mean one can no longer say that he is a certified Guro in ___ system? Should he just say "I was once certified in ___ system"? For those of you who belong to systems that re-certify, do you have to pay for them? I understand from a family friend that there is now a disagreement between Remy Presas's Filipino students who trained in the 70s before he came to the US and the Western world students who hold higher ranks that didn't exist in the 70s. Can anyone elaborate? Jay --__--__-- Message: 5 From: AnimalMac@aol.com Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:01:43 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Stevan Plinck's new video Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >From Marc Animal MacYoung HOOO -YAAAH! I just got word that Guru Stevan Plinck's new video The Devastating Martial Art of Pukulan Pentjak Silat Serak. is out and availible for orders. Now for those of you who don't know it, when it comes to martial skill Mr. Plinck could use my ass as a mop...and I wish I could say that he'd break into a sweat doing it, but I seriously doubt that. It's not only his fighting skill that is impressive, however, it is his understanding of the depths of what he does that makes him a phenominal teacher. Someone who regularly melts my brain with his understanding and ability to communicate what he knows. Now the funny thing is while there are lots of silat factions who want to claim him as "their creation" it isn't just his experience with Serak that made him who he is. While a lot of people went through Uncle Sam's vacation plan and never learned how, it was his time with the Green Berets that taught him how to think and to analyze. He applied this skill to the martial arts on an incredibly deep and profound level. His training in the Indonesian fighting arts started when he was ten with his grandmother...needless to say he's been at this for a while. So folks no matter what style you study, you can get incredible information and applications to your own art by watching these tapes...and yes there are more coming out. It's 39.95 plus $3.50 shipping and handling Make checks to Stevan Plinck PO Box 444 Kelso WA 98626 As soon as is it up I'll have a link to his website from mine http://www.diac.com/~dgordon Animal --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Seraksatu@aol.com Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:12:55 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Rangking in Tongkat Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Mr. Absolom: Rank in Tongkat, what does that have to do with Serak Didelisquat Joe could not do any basic Phase 1-2 Serak from the curriculem. That is published in the Book of Serak. Likend to a white belt. Serak Concepts the unfinished symphony But then only in America, it is a mute point. And you mentioned, you are a 3rd degree Kempo Practitioner, by almeans I applaud you for your hard work. And if you are happy what Joe does, by almeans that is great. Simply said, he has no Serak, is that so hard to accept. I developed Tongkat in 1957, when Joe was still a young person Be well Only in america Have a nice day Pak Vic << The basic point that Pak Victor acknowledges that Simonet has the ranking and knowledge to teach the version of Silat that he has put forward on his tapes. There reaaly should not be a major arguement since the confirmation is coming from the ead Man in the Tongkat system, Todd's opinions not withstanding. Respectfully, Absolom --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "johnaleen" To: Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:17:07 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Ms J bows to G Hudgins Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woo woo, i am so glad someone got it.........:) See here's the problem, my job is to bring more of the average person that is being affected by the violence in today society, training and education so that they are not the recruing victims of the cycles of abuse and violent crime, or to prevent others to make sure they never become a victime of violent crime, if I can do it so your never a victim even better. Its called prevention, i would rather prevent then have to go and teach others that are already traumatized and have fears that i have to help them though, this is a very hard job. My organizations teachers that are now learning this program, they can attest to you that its not as simple as they envisioned it when they first signed on with the team. but there are way to many victims, and it sucks. i want to change that. There are a lot of negative examples out there that keep the average person i.e. " stated possible victim of violent crime today away from training" hell the cops and U.S. government security departments are begging woman to go and get educated and take self defense or martial arts to protect themselves. Regardless of the " negative " examples being founded or not their still there and still something that gets in the way of bringing them in at times" its not my job to validate them or even bring them up. and i dont go there with my clients. regardless of what the police tell them there not training, how come? In addition, I believe that most here would agree that once a person is trained they are no longer the average person and their chances of becoming a victim are not as high. If they would be then there would be no reason to keep training lol......... It's even harder to convince a victim that has fears to take a physical self defense and awarness class let alone become trained in a MA or FMA art. Marketing and changing the view that others see out there. IE the untrained and so forth the ones that really really need the training and the skills for survival of today's society. their the huge un captured market as well. The program first teaches the survivors what they need as a basic self defense and awareness skills, then i promote other realty based arts, long term martial arts, and holistic healing modalities that they might be interested in learning on a secondary bases... Well i cant show them examples that are going to scare them, for heavens sakes they have already lived though dudes that beat them or used force on them, or faced a weapon and lost to it, they need positive examples where they can see its possible for them to fight these attacks, as well as still preserve the gender balance between men and woman. The give and take on the floor is very important to these clients. I want to teach the program in teams of both genders. I have to do that very carefully to preserve and show respect to each gender wile doing it. Part of the program i teach them covers 4 weeks of training after they have been though are core program that we are teaching though the shelter systems. That 4 weeks of secondary training is paid for and they can go to any of the local ma, FMA, Self defense organizations, holistic healing organizations for secondary training, this is after they have taken 8 weeks with us first 24 hours of core healing modalities and self defense and awareness training. I have a video that i am piecing together as a marketing tool for these clients, it will be shown in part of are class breakdown. I wanted to show them examples of woman doing techniques both taking and receiving in an equal manor, on this tape i have parts of my favorite martial arts instruction tapes that are part of are library here with the org, I have been very careful how I have represented the organizations and genders balance on are web site as well because of this. and because 80% of my teachers for the organization at present are Men. I respect these men, their skills on the floor, as well as there overall educations brought into the program and organization as a whole. and i never want to show other then this when teaching with them on the floor in public. that and most of us are close friends. so we work well together as a team. a few of the clips that i am including for the class are: 1) The Explosive art of Indonesian Penchak Silat Searak: in part of this video Pak Vic verbally instructs and Sempai Jane F. Detours. Jane does a totally brilliant display of give and take with her larger partner on the floor, this is empowering to the untrained client to see and an absolutely positive example for all the organizations that present this way..... It is a very positive visual effect for these clients that i have now been able to bring their interests into learning further and seeking long-term training by seeing it in this representation. 2) I have a brilliant clip off of one of Guro Dan and Guru Paula's 3 tape serious where the Two of them are in the ring with the sticks and there going back and forth in positive flow and technique, Ok. i shiver when i see this, and it sure the hell totally inspired me when I first saw it. In addition, when the students in my class see it they are awed and inspired... solid positive examples......... I have pictures of Guro Ramon and Guro Eva Rubia during stick sparing practice in full gear, preparing for the world championships, working together on the floor with Guro Eva's warrior spirit and Guro Ramón skill facing her as they fight for balance back and forth. Doing this I am showing my clients all the levels of contact and empowerment that are out there as options for them and further training in whatever they want. When people see these kinds of positive examples things change for them, and they start to open there minds to doing some of these things for the first time in there lives. now that's exciting for me and one of the reasons I do this...:) So when someone brought up a comment about a video tape, I tried to be very clear that I had not seen it yet and thought I made myself clear that its was solely based on that one statement. i even tried to keep it un attacking, even though the first letter i was commenting on was concerning someone trying to rip off one of the organzatons i highly respect and have trained under. When i maid my comments back, it was on the train of thought of marketing and what's best for others that are untrained and need to seek training, it had nothing to do with what i personally believe about one person as a teacher or so forth but what i have to do to change things for others to bring them what they need. One more thing, the survivors program is meant to be taught in male and female teams, unfortunately.... i am one of only 2 woman on my east coast team teaching it because there are so few woman fully trained and ranked here that its been impossible to find ones to fill the even slots.... I do now have a number of women that will be working through the training of the system to add more balance to my teams, but I have to train them still fully and that takes time. So i end up having to teach most of the female end of the balance changing my team members often so that they all get part of the floor time and teaching time, trying to represent the most effective and even balance i can there for them... I want to change the negative gender views, and you cant do that by huffing and puffing about it, example is what helps the most, based on research and the bases for adult education and long term education for children. I have been very fortunate, I have had the chance to train all over the world with many organizations, most of the time, one of only a few women on the floor, and half the time I went alone. Many times i end up the biggest dude there on the floor and I have loved every minute of the personal challenge, most of the times I have had to prove myself a bit, but again. I have in most cases been treated well, and in the instances I have not, I have turned it about so I was treated well in the end. I did not fear, I was having a blast, but I did not understand why there were so few woman there. Therefore, I started looking into the reasons why so I could change it. 95% of my experiences have been positive ones, now I am trying to make sure others understand that they can have the same experiences regardless of what they fear based on poor examples and miss conceptions based on " sometimes" gender based issues that don't need to even be there at all, if presented clearly in balance. Side note: keeping this train of thought, if we have fewer negative examples out there then there are less reasons for the government to try and force issue by writing laws to govern us as a whole i.e. Martial arts organizations" do i personally believe we will be faced with these laws? i have been listing to the government for 10 years trying to promote these kinds of rulings. i have no clue if it will ever take place. but, i am going to be sure that if it does happen i am not holding the bag and having to fall into there guidelines. this is my thinking, its been the same comment that I have made here as well over the past 3 + years when we cross the topic of government laws and enforcements of are individual organizations and teaching or are arts. no one has to agree with it but. its how I think.. Moreover, right for me. Ms. J bows deeply.... " Well Behaved Women Seldom Make History" --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest