To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sender: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Unsubscribe: Status: OR Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<------------- The Eskrima Digest mailing list ------------->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. 1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://InayanEskrima.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #32 - 7 msgs (Bladewerkrr@aol.com) 2. Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #32 - 7 msgs (Kes41355@aol.com) 3. playing catch up with JHR/52 Blocks (Stickgrappler) 4. RE: Seeking info on Jason Kilgore/Sierra Foothills (Allen Eastwood) 5. Re: Charlotte. NC training / Cass Magda Seminar (Magdainst@aol.com) 6. Joe Simonet tapes (Jonathan Broster) 7. Trust/Honor/Bear (Seraksatu@aol.com) 8. RE: Copywriting Serak (Todd Ellner) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Bladewerkrr@aol.com Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 11:55:52 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #32 - 7 msgs Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 1/23/02 7:04:22 PM Pacific Standard Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: << Marketing and changing the view that others see out there. IE the untrained and so forth the ones that really really need the training and the skills for survival of today's society. their the huge un captured market as well. >> This is very true, but everyone has to decide for themselves how to do that. <<<>>>>> Personally, I believe that government intervention in anything is almost always bad. With the martial arts it would be terrible. Law makers usually pick their "experts" from the biggest ads in the yellow pages. I would hate to think that Tae Kwon Do would set standards for boxing or FMA, or vise versa. <<<" Well Behaved Women Seldom Make History">>> I really have to disagree with you here. Well behaved, courteous people of both sexes usually achieve much more than ill behaved ones. A few examples would be: Jackie Kennedy Onasis, Margaret Thatcher, Madeline Allbright. All very powerful women who commanded the respect of everyone, even those that didn't care for them personally. They were also cultured, courteous, well mannered individuals. I believe that they have all made history. Bear --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Kes41355@aol.com Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 17:47:03 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #32 - 7 msgs Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 1/23/02 10:05:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: << HOOO -YAAAH! I just got word that Guru Stevan Plinck's new video The Devastating Martial Art of Pukulan Pentjak Silat Serak. is out and availible for orders. Now for those of you who don't know it, when it comes to martial skill Mr. Plinck could use my ass as a mop...and I wish I could say that he'd break into a sweat doing it, but I seriously doubt that. It's not only his fighting skill that is impressive, however, it is his understanding of the depths of what he does that makes him a phenominal teacher. Someone who regularly melts my brain with his understanding and ability to communicate what he knows. >> Hi all, Again, I REALLY hesitated to write this, but after so many posts relating to Mr. Plinck's skills in Silat, I had to post this...I hope it doesn't piss too many folks off, and I sincerely mean no disrespect at all. BUT, I have seen Mr. Plinck's previous tapes, and I am sorry, but I just don't get it. I was not impressed by him at all, and in fact, the tapes nearly put me to sleep...what am I missing????? I watched each tape with eager anticipation, and was sorely disappointed. After the first tape, I thought to myself, "what's up with all the noise about this guy?" I would not recommend his tapes to anyone with a sincere interest in martial arts. Sorry folks, and no disrespect to you, Mac. Kim Satterfield --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 00:04:18 -0500 From: Stickgrappler To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] playing catch up with JHR/52 Blocks Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net hello, i'm just catching up with the ED and read some posts on Jailhouse Rock (aka 52 blocks). this may be of interest to the ED members, did not see it mentioned, as far as i know, i'm the only one on the web archiving JHR/52 info. i have exchanged emails with the author Douglas Century and Dennis Newsome. check out my site: http://stickgrappler.tripod.com click the JHR/52 link i have excerpts of the recent interview with Mestre Newsome as well as the link to the full interview. enjoy! very best, hyman "Stickgrappling is a bit like a pinball game when 3 balls get going. There is the grappling, the stickfighting, and the stickgrappling all going on at once and what is sound in one, may be quite vulnerable in the context of one or both of the others." - Guro Crafty Dog --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 23:26:05 -0600 From: Allen Eastwood To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net, escrima_arnis@topica.com Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Seeking info on Jason Kilgore/Sierra Foothills Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net A reply to my own message and a warning. Since asking to be removed from his e-mail list I have been subjected to abusive e-mails from friends of his on his list. After complaining to that person's ISP, a constant deluge of spam as someone has been busily entering my e-mail on every spam list they could find. I suspect the person involved, since he was the one I had to complain about is a guy by the moniker of Sifu Mark Gerry. Additionally, at least one school that I know of has sent Kilgore stuff and not been paid for it. If you are contacted by these people, my best advice is to stay far away. -A > -----Original Message----- > From: Allen Eastwood [mailto:mixal@swbell.net] > Does anyone know of or have any personal experience with > Jason Kilgore of Sierra Foothills Karate? A few weeks ago I > ended up on his mailing list and got e-mail from him asking > to be affiliated with my school. > > Thanks in advance! > > -Allen --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Magdainst@aol.com Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 02:50:17 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Charlotte. NC training / Cass Magda Seminar Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Randy Clontz who is an instructor under Cass Magda, runs a club featuring the Magda Institute curriculum of JKD, Kali and Silat. Randy used to be on staff at the Magda Institute in Los Angeles. You can contact him at (704) 753-3606 Cass Magda will be in Charlotte NC for a seminar weekend on March 16th -17th. Contact Randy at above number for details or try Randy.Clontz@espn.com Regards, Magda Institute --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Jonathan Broster" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 12:17:01 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Joe Simonet tapes Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi A few months after the adverts for the "Silat Concepts" tapes first went out there was an apology printed in the Paladin Press catalogue. Basically saying that they were sorry that they had made the mistaken claim that Simonet was a guru in Serak, when he only holds rank in Tongkat Serak. My gripes with the tapes are: 1. Simonet trained mainly with Guru Bob Vanatta, but he makes a big play of the time he spent training with Pak Victor, which was minimal. 2. He claims that Serak is "dead" 3. Why not just advertise the tapes as being about Tongkat Serak? Most people clearly have no idea of the difference! (me included)! 4. If Ms Hernandez was demonstrating on Simonet the techniques would be much more impressive. He must be 80lbs heavier, and does not really need much technique to throw her around. Jon _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Seraksatu@aol.com Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 10:58:49 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Trust/Honor/Bear Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Selamat mas Bear, Thank you for the thoughts, as you know they have been copywritten. The book is also copywritten, as you know the Library of Congress keeps all respective books. Also, with systems, the system of Serak for one. Here in the United States, I hold a Silat Serak Perguruan (Organization). And as I keep records, material also gets copywritten. Different teachers have different ways to do their work. In this case however, Joe Simonet was a student of MGM Robert Vanatta, who in turn was my student. And as always folks apply to learn and send in their application and register, like any other school. He did not apply himself in learning, especially in serak. In Tongkat he did, and I honor his training in that. In Serak It was just way too short. Counting in training Hours, not months or years, and I keep written records. Joe's total hours of training in Serak can be counted as less then 20 hours. That is the reason why Serak practitioner folks get upset, for their training time runs in the 100 of hours or even thousand of hours. If he had gone and completed rank levels like everyone else, then absolutly no problem, but he did not. Tongkat has been copywritten, and it is not Serak, that is also Copywritten.. Folks train and learn in the free spirit, and once you have achieved the product of your training (train, learn the curriculem and practice) call it your own, for you have earnd it and explore the horizon Serak has to offer, or any system a person practice. In Tongkat, I blended Pamoer, Soempat, Serak, Jiu Juts, Judo and Kuntao into one art. I started that endeavor in 1957 and it took me to 1980 to finally put the last dot on any of the techniequs and curriculem. Time was the killer for me to take that long in doing Tongkat, for my personal priority was perfecting my own training in Serak, and I am at the 54 year mark in training the art of Serak. Founders Jigaro Kano who developed Judo and "O" Sensei are my favorite folks. Written records are kept by the japanes organization, and also at the Aikido organizations. My wife Ibu Jane, who is a practitioner of Aikido and teaches Silat Serak and Aikido at the academy, records time. Her training time is recorded with Shihan Francis Takahashi. Always remember, universal body principals exist. I ask my brother Paul at the time, what shall I call my system I founded. He mentioned to me, call it Tongkat, meaning Carrier or Stick. I did not dishonor Bapak Serak by calling it, Modern Pentjak Silat Serak. To all end Mas Bear, you are right of course. The simple respect to a system would be great. It is called Heart and HONOR, that is why folks such as you and many more on this list are respected in the Martial Arts community. And yes, there are many that have that Honor and respect in their spirit. We do it, because of Honor. Somewhat prejeduce on my part, the USMC instills brotherhood and teamwork. It is called "Semperfidelis" or "Semperfi" Honor and Country, always faithfull to each other. Remember September 11, 2001, in that is more important And yes we are looking into the suggestions you made, will see what happen. Thank you and my hormat to you Pak Vic << Pak Vic >> With all respect to you Pak Vic, might I offer a suggestion, not only to you but to all that head a system. One of the problems is that in America, unfortunately advertising ploys sometimes outweigh respect. The solution might be to copywrite the system, as the Dog Brother Martial Arts have done. That way should someone not associated with the system use the name in advertising a product, there would be legal recourse, both to the writer and publisher. Or in this case the person doing the video and the company releasing it. I hate to offer this as a possible solution, as it seems that simple respect for ones teacher would make it unnecessary. But like using a good lock or having a weapon for self defense, it is something that our society seems to make necessary. Bear >> --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Todd Ellner" To: Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 08:24:14 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Copywriting Serak Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Bear writes: > With all respect to you Pak Vic, might I offer a suggestion, not only to >you but to all that head a system. One of the problems is that in America, >unfortunately advertising ploys sometimes outweigh respect. The solution >might be to copywrite the system, as the Dog Brother Martial Arts have done. That might work for Tongkat. After all Pak Victor developed it. But it would not be appropriate for Serak. The art existed before the current practitioners and is not their intellectual property. Todd --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest