To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sender: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Today's Topics: 1. BAKBAKAN KALI (Ilustrisimo) Workshop (Justo370@aol.com) 2. Re: sweeps (IK) 3. Philippine "Indian Pana" (Michael Enad) 4. Re: Inside sweep (Terry Tippie) 5. Clubs or Schools in Ft. Worth, TX (Reuben Argel) 6. Re: Suro Mike Inay (Kes41355@aol.com) 7. inside, outside (arlan and angel sanford) 8. Re: 2 Types of Eskrima (Federico Moran) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Justo370@aol.com Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:45:01 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] BAKBAKAN KALI (Ilustrisimo) Workshop Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net N.J. Bujutsu Academy presents.... BAKBAKAN KALI (Ilustrisimo) Workshop Experience the combat tested strategy and techniques of the legendary GM Antonio Ilustrisimo through the progressive training methods and systematic approach developed by Master Reynaldo S. Galang of Bakbakan International. Learn Bakbakan Kali from Master Rey's 1st generation disciples Guro John G. Jacobo & Guro Chris Bengel. Topic: Sinawali & Solo Baston Date: March 2,2002 Time: 1:00 - 4:00pm Cost: NJBA Members $35.00 / Non-Members $40.00 Place: N.J.B.A. 77 Pension Road Manalapan, NJ 07726 Contact: Sensei John Potenza Tel: (732)617-0542 --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 07:42:58 -0800 (PST) From: IK To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: sweeps Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net If the sweep (or sometimes called deflection) is used as it is taught when praticing with a partner, I agree that it would be rahter difficult to execute properly (unless one is at a very high level like Guro Inosanto, Mangisursuro Inay, etc.). But also remember that it is taught and practiced that way to be nice to your partner. In reality (without gloves on) the target of the sweep might (and IMO should) be the hand where the live hand will check either the arm, body or opponent's dagger/live hand. Doing this by accident in the past has taught me that it is an effective method to engage a #1 strike. Also, footwork and timing are essential (well, aren't they always?) in making sure that this method of engagement is effective, as well as, an effective counter attack. My two cents. I Kim > > Jeff Inman wrote (to Ray Terry): > The technique I was talking about is a move into > midrange, which > includes a block and a check of the striking hand with > the free > hand, intended to set up one of several followup > counters. I... Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Michael Enad" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 16:29:48 Subject: [Eskrima] Philippine "Indian Pana" Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net “T. Deveyra mentioned the arrow (pana). I have seen …..” Reply: This brings back memories of late 80’s early 70”s in Cebu. The “Indian pana” made a distint sound when traveling. The feather fletchings were quieter but they also used soft plastic or cloth that made a rustling sound when it passed you. They also made a unique popping sound when they hit body cavity. The warhead portion of the pana were usually hooked so as to impede seedy removal (they were also soaked in nasty stuff that caused infections). They were shot with a modified sling shot The pana had to be shot a certain way to avoid hitting you in your hand. You could tell a good/bad shooter by the number of scars in the back of the palm of his hand. My dad(a surgeon in Cebu) used to come home early mornings with the gory details/count of the damages cause by the pana. Head shots were usually initially survivable, the removal and subsequent infections had a 50/50 chance. Body shots to the heart and head were the ones you hear about. A hit at any other body part would not have been reported. We heard reports of back-alley surgeons that were experts at removing them with a rusty shaving blade and a pair of long nose pliers. It was hard to counter a pana attack there was no shot/muzzle flash to indicate direction. They were shot in the dark, around corners, through windows and over fences. They left no powder burns, they were made from common nails. When you were hit or shot-at they would say you were "Indian-ed". PS. They went through kevlar like butter. Michael Wood Kris Swords _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:51:02 -0800 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: Terry Tippie Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Inside sweep Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I agree with Jeff Inman's comments about using inside sweep entering into mid-range as being taught far in excess of its utility. But I had a different reaction as to how to teach this problem to your students. Why not use the socratic method? Teach it to them la scala with great enthusiasm as if it is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Then spar with it and whack 'em a bit just for fun. Then tell them, "Man, you need a lot of work on that one, sir". They'll walk out of class with a funny look on their faces. Then next class give them a de-briefing so they can understand that in addition to "You SUCK" (which is always true) that there is a structural problem with using the technique as it is taught la scala. That way they not only learn a solution to that problem, they learn to think for themselves. And you get the added pleasure of playing a trick on your students. Come on, don't you guys ever set your students up? I yelled at my Muay Thai class for 10 minutes one day over a teep, straight knee #2 combination. I told them they needed to do it faster, higher and smoother. "No! No! You're getting it wrong!" I bellowed. I heard one student comment sheepishly, "Man, Kru Terry's pissed."It wasn't until I had them link arms and do this combination that they realized they were rehearsing the Can Can that they started cracking up. Terry --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Reuben Argel" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 23:52:41 Subject: [Eskrima] Clubs or Schools in Ft. Worth, TX Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Aloha Folks, I will be going to Ft. Worth, TX for business. Was wondering if there are any clubs, schools etc. that I can visit/train (if permitted). Any recommendation would be very appreciated. FMA is preferred but any style/system that you E.D. suggest would be welcomed. Mahalo / Salamat / Thank you! Reuben _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Kes41355@aol.com Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 19:39:39 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Suro Mike Inay Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 1/30/02 9:02:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: << I was fighting him once, and actually completed a full swing before I looked and saw that I had no stick, and Suro was holding both of them with a big grin on his face. After one of our fights, his proficiency in sweeping the Serrada angle 2 - type strike led me to receive many comments like "Hey, nice head block!" from spectators. What an amazing man... >> Hi all, I have to second that about Suro Mike...I have met very, very few true "masters" in my life, and Mike was at the top of the list. I chose to study Inayan Eskrima based on two things; Suro's ability, of course, but I knew of Suro only vicariously; I did not meet Mike until I had been an Inayan player for over 10 years. I chose the style based upon the absolutely awesome abilities of my teachers, who were among Suro Mike's early inner circle of Guros. Rob McDonald, Gary Bowlds, Ben Berry, and Alan McLuckie are testament to the fact that it is not the master's physical skill alone that make him a master, but rather the masterpieces he/she produces. Each Inayan Guro that I studied with could actually apply their Eskrima for real, with no adaptation at all. To this day I stand in awe of Rob McDonald's ability, for to train with Rob was to train with Mike. Mike instilled a sense of reality in their training, and Inayan players stand as some of the very best, and most knowledgeable, Eskrimadors on the scene today. Funny thing about Suro Mike and disarms; he did not advocate the use of elaborate disarms per se; he preferred to simply apply a direct hit and smash the hand to effect the disarm. Yet, Mike was probably the best "disarmer" I've seen; he could apply any of the "elaborate" disarms literally at will. Again, quite a man, quite an Eskrimador. Kim Satterfield --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "arlan and angel sanford" To: Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 18:50:54 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] inside, outside Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net For the most part, I would agree with Jeff on training sweeps, both inside and outside. I would make a distinction between a sweep and something like the four walls blocks in P-T or the similar blocks in Krabi which, to me, serve a different purpose. I use and have seen what might be called an inside sweep, but never in the way that I spent years practicing. I think (and could be wrong) that what Jeff is saying, is why teach something in a way that doesn't work when, if you're going to do drills, you could be working it in a way that is more realistic. I have never, in 14 years of DB,(several thousand fights seen?) seen anyone, in any style, pull of an inside or outside sweep as I was taught in the begining of my training. Say there were 50 strikes in a fight, making for 50 to 100 thousand strikes of which almost none were countered with a sweep as I learned them. I understand some want to train for specific attributes in a drill,( timing, target, etc), but why not make the whole drill usable? Is it possible the sweeps are more applicable in bladed fights? My own experience in Krabi tells me no. We were drilled over and over and over that any move like a sweep with a sword leaves you dead and once you learned to see the opening, it was very easy to get a kill on someone who did a traditional sweep. Just for info, I try to sweep once in awhile in a fight and almost always the sweep turns into a four walls type block with a counter or another block behind it. It might be to some this is a sweep, but it has a different feel to me from the sweeps I learned early on. I also would differentiate between a sweep and attacking the attacking stick as a target in its own right as opposed to defending, a little unclear I know, but hopefully clear enough to get the point across. Arlan --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Federico Moran" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 17:55:37 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: 2 Types of Eskrima Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Guro Drape, Interesting! Being a fairly new student of FMA, I haven't come across this idea of teaching eskrima differently to different students based on whether or not the student wants to defend themselves or fight (become an eskrimador). I understand that there are many different styles of eskrima, but I don't think I've read anything that puts forth this idea the way you have. The thread discussing the validity of the "sweep" block is touching upon it, but you've acknowledged that it can be taught differently. Having read through many threads discussing drilling techniques versus actual application, I am hoping you can elaborate on how your method of teaching fits into those ideas? I would imagine that the learned "eskrimador" student would be able to defend themselves from both trained and untrained opponents, but how would the "self-defense" opponent fare against the trained opponent? With Highest Regards, Federico PS. I would very much like to hear the opinions of some of the more advanced practitioners/teachers on the list regarding this subject. I'm wondering if others feel the same way. I'm always hoping to gain some insight into my art. PSS. This is my first post after lurking for some time. This list has provided me with so much information already! Thank you Mr. Terry for hosting a forum that allows such open communication. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest