To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sender: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Unsubscribe: Status: OR Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<-------------- The Eskrima/FMA mailing list -------------->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://InayanEskrima.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Stick fighting article (Mark Lynn) 2. Inside sweep B.S. (q) 3. Re: 2 types of eskrima (Steven Drape) 4. Training in Miami (Jamie Hutchins) 5. Re: Clubs or Schools in Ft. Worth, TX (jonbroster@another.co.uk) 6. http://www.ncjrs.org/pdffiles1/nij/188069.pdf (Ray Terry) 7. Re: defend or fight (AnimalMac@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Mark Lynn" To: Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 23:43:16 -0600 Subject: [Eskrima] Stick fighting article Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Generally I just lurk and read the digest. However I saw this article and thought I would post it for anyone else who might be interested. In Dragon Times (generally a Japanese martial arts publication) vol 20 there is an article on Stick fighting in the British Isles by Harry Cook. Mr. Cook describes different stick fighting methods (Quarter staff, single stick/backswording, walking stick and the Shillalah) in a historical context. The majority of the article is on the single stick and the sport of Backswording. In the sport of Backswording two opponents tied their empty hand to their body in various ways so that it could be used to block their head by a lifting of the elbow. And they took up the ash stick (about 3 ft long) with a wicker basket (as the hand guard, like a sword). From here the struck at each others head till someone drew blood, when the blood ran down the face/head 1 inch long, then the contest was called. "....and other hits although no doubt very painful were not recognized as valid" The article describes several matches in detail from old books. What I found interesting was that in a couple of the contests the contestants were ordinary people, a Shepard, young butcher, a gypsy, etc. Now think of it unless I read this wrong these were all neighbors or workers in the surrounding area so I would think that their intent wasn't to hurt or maim anyone just to win the match and not get to hurt in the process. And collect the prize money. Anyway I was thinking of the skill that it takes to try and hit the head of your opponent and just cut him on the head without trying to just knock the ____ out of them. All of the while trying to stay out of their stick range as well. In Vol 19 of Dragon Times there is another article by Harry Cook on the historical methods of boxing (training and different fights) another excellent article. In reading the thread of fight training and cooperative training ED vol9 #40 I thought of this article. Here the guys were fighting for real with real sticks (ash and 3 ft long) and yet they had the skill to not kill or seriously damage their opponents in the process (I believe this since they were from the surrounding area and fellow workers). I mean they couldn't just charge in and try taking the other player to the ground. Maybe this is where the cooperative training comes in, learning the range to stay out of harms way and still get the hit in. Kind of like the old story of Mushasi on the island and his sword fight. Learning how to set up and fake your opponent out. In the above mentioned article Mr. Cook also mentions a couple of stories where this comes into play, this was a pretty rough sport (ref. Singlestick at Angelo's) My study of the FMAs has been primarily under the cooperative training, I have had very few stick fights with gear. None in the method of the Dog Brothers Martial Arts with very minimal gear. Mark Lynn --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "q" To: Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 21:34:48 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Inside sweep B.S. Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Guys, I have not seen a post I can agree with yet on the "Inside Sweep" issue and a post or two are absolutely funny. They show a true lack of understanding. I do not want ot piss anyone off and that is not my intent. I could go on for a long time here but for sake of brevity...the point and essence of the inside sweep has been missed. Complicity and phony intent in the inside sweep are for illistration. Are there any voluteers here who would like to have that inside sweep on their head and the check on the body? Thus your next followup are many and telling. People have forgot the "purpose" and "essence". No thanks, been there done that too many lumps ago. You can stop a surprising amount of power by judicious applications of force. Regards, Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S. Torrance, Ca. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 13:24:24 +0300 From: "Steven Drape" To: Subject: [Eskrima] Re: 2 types of eskrima Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Having read through many threads discussing drilling techniques versus >actual application, I am hoping you can elaborate on how your method of >teaching fits into those ideas? I would imagine that the learned >"eskrimador" student would be able to defend themselves from both trained >and untrained opponents, but how would the "self-defense" opponent fare >against the trained opponent? It's not that I teach two completely different styles, but in the beginning, I teach how to deal with an untrained person trying to hurt them. It is not likely that someone who is a trained eskrimador will be attacking them in the street with a stick, so things like disarms, inside sweep blocks and so on can work. Since most of them will never last anyway- lucky if 10% make it through 3 months!- at least they get a little self-defense out of it. If someone stays around, they learn what works and what doesn't with another trained person. We spar a lot (full-contact for those willing) and you quickly learn that certain things can work and others are more difficult. Steve [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/gif] [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type Image/jpeg] --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Jamie Hutchins To: "'eskrima@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 12:17:33 -0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Training in Miami Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Dear ED members, I seen a few other people ask for this kind of information so I thought I'd try my hand. It looks as if my bosses are sending me to Miami on business at the end of February for about a week or so. I'll be in Coral Gables (wherever that is) and wondered if anyone trains there that might be willing to have a keen beginner come train at their school for a couple of nights? I've been training, for just over a year, mostly in Inosanto-Lacoste blend but definitely interested in experiencing other styles. If so please either reply at the ED (if that'd ok Ray?) or send me an email mailto:jam_hut@yahoo.co.uk I look forward to hearing from you. Thanks. Jamie -----Original Message----- From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net [mailto:eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net] Sent: 31 January 2002 10:04 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #43 - 5 msgs Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 13:07:49 +0000 (GMT) From: jonbroster@another.co.uk To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Clubs or Schools in Ft. Worth, TX Cc: rargel@hotmail.com Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Richard de Bordes has several instructors in the state of Texas: Dallas Ken "Doc" Dority Tel: (1-214) 349 7440 Bill Stutesman Tel: (1-214) 435 0243 email: bill_stutesman@dale-carnegie.com Fort Worth Kelly Smith Tel: (1-214) 532 2160 email: MMPSFW@aol.com They teach the Harimau Minangkabau system of Silat, which I highly recommend. They could probably point you in the direction of some FMA in the area. Jon There's nothing more dangerous than a blunt knife! http://www.geocities.com/jonbroster ---------- Get a free, personalised email address at http://another.com TXT ALRT! Stop wasting money now. Send FREE, personalised txt msgs to UK mobile phones from http://another.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry To: policedo@martialartsresource.net, the_dojang@martialartsresource.net, eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 7:40:57 PST Subject: [Eskrima] http://www.ncjrs.org/pdffiles1/nij/188069.pdf Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net A recent DOJ study on OC spray at: http://www.ncjrs.org/pdffiles1/nij/188069.pdf Issues and Findings from the study... Discussed in this Brief: The effect of oleoresin capsicum (OC), or pepper spray, on respiration, particularly when combined with positional restraint. Researchers exposed 34 subjects to OC spray, both while sitting and in the prone maximal restraint position. Key findings: OC exposure and inhalation do not result in a significant risk for respiratory compromise or asphyxiation, even when combined with positional restraint. In the sitting position, OC spray inhalation and exposure resulted in no respiratory compromise. There was no evidence of abnormally low oxygen levels or abnormally high levels of carbon dioxide (CO2). In fact, the lower CO2 levels for this group suggest that OC spray may actually increase ventilation slightly. Researchers detected no difference between the OC and placebo groups in the restraint position. There was some decline in pulmonary function, but not enough to be clinically significant. As in the sitting position, OC seemed to increase ventilation. OC exposure did, however, result in an increase in blood pressure, perhaps due to the discomfort and pain associated with OC. The clinical implications of this finding remain unknown. This study had a number of limitations. First, not all of the conditions that occur when OC and restraint are employed in the field could be reproduced in the laboratory. Second, the effects of prolonged sprays or repeated exposures were not studied. Third, all of the subjects were cadets at the local police academy and were generally healthy. Fourth, the study did not investigate the long-term effects of OC exposure or the potential for complications from chronic occupational exposure to OC. Target audience: Law enforcement policymakers and practitioners, defense and prosecution attorneys involved in OC spray criminal and civil litigation, and medical examiners. --__--__-- Message: 7 From: AnimalMac@aol.com Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 11:45:27 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: defend or fight Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >From Marc MacYoung >I believe the two are very different in how they should be trained and applied 1)awareness and reaction time are different in a self-defense situation 2)you are probably not going to have the wife and kids with you when you are fighting 3)the end result may be different, escape and safety as quickly as possible in a self defense situation, incapacitation of your opponent in a fight. While the two certainly cross over, I think the training should reflect the situation. Arlan >> Ummmm....why should I train someone to do an illegal, stupid, dangerous and selfish act? Aside from the moral implications, there is this thing called "Deep pockets" with civil liability. I have an entire rant on the idea of learning streetfighting at http://www.diac.com/~dgordon/streetfighting.html And if you really want a rant, go check out the knifefighting section. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest