Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 15:10:07 -0800 (PST) From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #55 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sender: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Unsubscribe: Status: OR Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<-------------- The Eskrima/FMA mailing list -------------->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://InayanEskrima.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Guro/Guru? Master/GM/Tuhon/etc. (Kes41355@aol.com) 2. Guro/Guru definition (TABULA RAZA) 3. Guro ? (rich parsons) 4. Guru/Enlightment/long (Seraksatu@aol.com) 5. Full Contact Videos cont... (william schultz) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Kes41355@aol.com Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 21:52:01 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Guro/Guru? Master/GM/Tuhon/etc. Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi all, Maybe off the subject, maybe not, but here's my 2 cents worth on titles... Personally, I think Bruce Lee said it best when addressing the subject of titles. Bruce's classes were, I understand, quite informal, and due to that informality, Bruce wanted to be addressed as "Sifu" in class, even though most of his students were personal friends outside of class. I've read that Bruce said that with the informal atmosphere of his class, there needed to be some sense of progression, of respect for seniors and instructors, so titles designating various ranks were used, and Bruce was "Sifu" to all in class. I am as informal as anyone in class; we have a sense of purpose in class, but we also aren't afraid to have a sense of humor, due to the serious nature of the subject matter. However, there needs to be a limit to this, and recognition for those who have achieved a certain level of proficiency. In our class, the teacher is "Guro" or "Sir," and seniors are addressed as "Sir." This helps maintain a sense of decorum, and keeps everyone on track as to why we are there. If things are kept too relaxed, the "cohesiveness" of the class can quickly degenerate. Kim --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 22:33:27 -1000 (HST) From: TABULA RAZA To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Guro/Guru definition Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Guru? Actually means, "Dispeller of Darkness" (meaning Ignorance). Y'know that in old Teutonic, (meaning a Germanic tribe), "wife" meant, "one who cooked in the kitchen". Well I'd say definitions are so fixed as we think they are. Much like the word, "bad", which could pertain to pretty women, a person good at what he does, and so forth. Anyways, I kinda think "guros" dispel the ignorance one has of not knowing how to defend oneself. Moreover, a true guro would teach "self preservation" and character development above all, rather than mere wanton brutality. -Just my thoughts. Please do not take offense:) Assalamu Alai Kum (Peace be unto you), -Erwin Legaspi "All I have ever longed for in my life . . . a vision of God." - 9th and 10th century Sufi mystic Mansur Al-Hallaj "Intellect and intelligence do not go together. Intelligence is obtained only when the heart and mind reach an agreement." - Jiddu Krishnamurti --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 06:33:52 -0800 (PST) From: rich parsons To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Guro ? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net To all, This is just my limited opinion, so as Ray has said just for fun ..., I agree that it could be used in the English Language. I also agree that to some in another culture it may mean more. But should not the context of the subject, including the cultural reference point, not be used in trying to understand the meaning of any word or phrase. This mis-understanding is how things get out of proportion, and people get upset. Now to the Spiritual side, this is just some questions? Could not someone who is using the inner peace they reach duting a good work out, as part of their spiritual journey or enlightenment? Could someone not have traveled a different path then the established 'norm' and stil not have received enlightenment? or Spiritual Understanding? What if someone was able to accomplish something that seemed magical or out of the norm, by only being in the correct position and using the correct timing, but the opponent and all watching still do not know where 'it' came from? This techinique, could it not have come from an inner enlightenment or spiritual understanding of themselves their body, and their surroundings? These are just my thoughts ;~). Have a nice day. Rich From: Ray Terry Subject: [Eskrima] Guru ? Just for fun... Recall how we've gone round-n-round over the use of the title Master? Here is how some on the 'other side' feel about the use of the title Guro/Guru. Provided only in hopes of enlightenment. :) Ray Forwarded message: Subject: the title "guru"-meant to be provocative I noticed that in one of the announcements, several well-known martial arts teachers had given themselves the title "guru". Now I have a lot of respect for martial arts teachers, I have known many and almost all have been good people. I also know that technically guru means teacher. But still, I object to the use of this title. The word has a wider meaning and inplications in Indian culture and in our own culture. Guru for me implies a deeply spiritual and scholarly person who has devoted him or herself to God and to enlightenment. Despite their devotion to their art, I do not put most martial arts teachers in the same category. Do you really think that a martial artist who will preside over "the Ring of Fire" in Las Vegas is properly referred to as "Guru" ? Martial artist who practice martial arts as a spiritual discipline are a minority and even among this minority the title "Guru" would be misplaced. To me, this sounds more like the hype of spirituality that Bruce Lee was so critical of. As great a martial artist as he is, is Dan Inosantos really a "Guru"? I think that throwing these terms around so carelessly threatens to make them meaningless. I know I will get some angry rebuttals to this, but I though I would throw it into the mix and see what happens. -- __--__-- Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Seraksatu@aol.com Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 11:12:08 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Guru/Enlightment/long Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Selamat all: Mas Ray, no Idea who the post was from, but as it is this the United States Called Free Speach. Here a question to the person of that post: 1. Who are you? that you can speak with such authority of Indonesian/Indian Culture? 2. Who are you to judge, who "GURU TUA" Dan Inosanto is? 3. Who and were have you gotten your schooling in the Mah Hat Mah? 4. Who are you? and How old are you? 5. Who are you to attached Spiritual meanings to a Pentjak Silat Serak Guru? 6. Who are you? to ask what is a Indonesian Guru vs Indian Guru? 7. What are the Seven Enlightment Structures of Guidence? These questions are directed to You pretender of knowledge with the jealous heart! Please enlighten this forum with you guided wisdom. Or if you wish please send us private emails to either this forum or to Seraksatu@aol.com And if you can not SIR!, then kindly play in your sandbox that seems limited in the broader enlightment of the spirit from within. Come back in thirty years from now, maybe by then you have grown in wisdom, so you can stand even in the shadow of GURU TUA Dan Inosanto or even in the Shadow of any true Guru mentioned in the Ring of Fire or any True Guru that has many years of practice and enlightment within their structure and heart, and guided others to the enlightment in what ever their goal was or still is. Guru Tua Dan Inosanto, Founder of the Inosanto Academy has, enlightend hunderds, No! Thousands of folks from the early sixties. Have you? I doubt it very much. So, we all know that Guru Dan is a Exceptional Martial Artist, so you realy did not have to bring that up about Sifu Bruce that is old news. If you were or belief what a Guru is then for a certainty, bring us in the light and not keep us with old news that is when we all were in the dark. Looks to me you failed in your own quest to do so. May the spirit of Sifu Bruce rest, appearently you found it necessary to bring Sifu Bruce out. Let his great spirit rest in peace please. Sifu Bruce a brother in Guru Dan's Heart and Spirit and they were very close. So YOU!, Jealous of the fact that Guru Dan has Enlightend the folks world wide are you? This is not an post of anger to you, but a post so you may learn, and find your door. "So You" can come back after the years of humble learning of enlightment. Be well, and may "YOU" ""Hold on tight in what you see in your hand, should you not, then the value can slip like the sands of the desert and your spirit may wander as the eternal wanderer in darkness. For it is the treu GURU that can lead you to the light were ever you spirit needs to go"" By Pak Vic (C) 1956 As for me "Pak Vic" Founder of the International VDT Academy this some guiding light to you from me. It is you that have too much anger in your spirit of jealousy and self admiration. <>Guru for me implies a deeply spiritual and scholarly person who has devoted him or herself to God and to enlightenment. Despite their devotion to their art>>> This an enlightment just for you since you had your opinion, so here is my opinion of you and this the United States of America, called free speech and the rights to every citzen, are you one? You said "Guru for me" Ah.....the self admiration scociety of "Me myself and I " You must be president and CEO of that "Me" club. You missed your boat of enlightment, study some more, come back in 3 decades or so, maybe you have learned to behave and speak to, or about a True and real Guru Tua. Do your self a favor, drink some hot green tea, and eat some chicken Noodle soup, you may feel better, I recommend "Campbell's" Chicken Soup In the spirit of enlightment from the dark to the light Pak Vic In a message dated 2/8/2002 5:44:55 PM Pacific Standard Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: << I noticed that in one of the announcements, several well-known martial arts teachers had given themselves the title "guru". Now I have a lot of respect for martial arts teachers, I have known many and almost all have been good people. I also know that technically guru means teacher. But still, I object to the use of this title. The word has a wider meaning and inplications in Indian culture and in our own culture. Guru for me implies a deeply spiritual and scholarly person who has devoted him or herself to God and to enlightenment. Despite their devotion to their art, I do not put most martial arts teachers in the same category. Do you really think that a martial artist who will preside over "the Ring of Fire" in Las Vegas is properly referred to as "Guru" ? Martial artist who practice martial arts as a spiritual discipline are a minority and even among this minority the title "Guru" would be misplaced. To me, this sounds more like the hype of spirituality that Bruce Lee was so critical of. As great a martial artist as he is, is Dan Inosantos really a "Guru"? I think that throwing these terms around so carelessly threatens to make them meaningless. I know I will get some angry rebuttals to this, but I though I would throw it into the mix and see what happens. _ >> --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: 9 Feb 2002 14:23:14 -0800 From: "william schultz" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Full Contact Videos cont... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Greetings, I just wanted to say thank you to all of you who inquired about, and ordered Guro Daniel's Full Contact Videos. You won't be disappointed. For anyone else that might be interested I will re-post my original letter one more time( with the correct spelling of Hapkido this time Ray). :) Thank you. Greetings, Due to an increasing number of inquires, Guro John Daniels is re-releasing his Philippine Combative Martial Arts two volume tape set, "Basic Full Contact Striking and Footwork". This excellent two tape set was originally released in 1994 and contains all the material to guide you through safe sparring and full contact fighting. Tape one covers: Basic stances and footwork patterns. X -patterns with palis palis. Basic glove sparring (hand strikes) Solo Baston: disarms + follow up strikes. Solo Baston: Strike patterns with palis palis. Freestyle sparring. Espada y Daga. Tape two covers: Warm ups. Flow Drills. Sunkiti (thrusting) drills. Knife to stick drills. Open hand to stick drills. Take downs with locks. Sensitivity and accuracy drills. Hirada. Freestyle. These tapes sell for $25.00 each. $40.00 for the set. Guro John Daniels has over twenty years of experience in the martial arts. He holds the rank of 7th Dan Arnis and Arjuken Karate under Grandmaster Roberto Presas. He is also a full instructor in Daga say Daga. Guro Daniels has been certified by Sifu Dan Inosanto as an instructor of Filipino Martial Arts and a 6th year associate instructor of Lee Jun Fan Gung Fu. Guro Daniels was also the Staff Instructor for Straight Blast Gym and is currently Staff Instructor at the Dacascos Kung Fu Academy in Portland Oregon. Guro Daniels other certifications include: *Certified Instructor under Guro Dan Inosanto *7th Degree Black Belt under GM Roberto Presas *3rd Degree Black Belt under GM Ciriaco "Cacoy" Canete. *Apprentice Instructor under Guro Ted LucayLucay *Tagapagturo (Instructor) under Guro Leonard Trigg *Phase 1 Instructor under Ajarn Chai Sirisute *Graduate (Instructor) in Laoation Kickboxing under Ajarn Samsak Boupha *Phase 1 Instructor under Paul Vunak & Tom Cruise *Blue Belt under Fabio Santos (BJJ) *2nd Dan in Hapkido If you are interested in obtaining this excellent set of tapes, please contact me directly. Thank you, William Schultz PCMA/MCAC --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest