Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 07:42:19 -0800 (PST) From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #72 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sender: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Unsubscribe: Status: OR Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<-------------- The Eskrima/FMA mailing list -------------->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://InayanEskrima.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Chokes (q) 2. Re: Chokes (Ray Terry) 3. FMA Empty Hands (Bill McG) 4. Near West Point (Bill McG) 5. All choked up.... (Jamie Hutchins) 6. Smelling Salts(Ammonia...) (Kel620@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "q" To: Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 20:35:48 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Chokes Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net This is directed at no one in particular. There is some silly posts going on with chokes. No body should allow themselves to be choked out. A better doctor is not made if the heart surgery he is going to do is done on himself first. You are not a better martial artist for having been choked out. You may as well experience a broken arm from an armbar if you are willing to be choked out. I don't see the advantage for the giver or the receiver. At some point, if I can wiz a bullet 2 inches from someone's head, I am pretty sure I could move over 2 more inches...if you know what I mean. Yes there are conditions of application, adrenal response, yada yada yada but anyone who has a basic non-martial job really has no business choking his training partners out. Chokes are dangerous and it is possible that you can't revive your training partner as a worst case. The choke is a valuable tool under the right conditions. When used at other times it shows a general lack of good judgement. Now acedemically the difference between the windpipe and the blood choke is not an issue. The issue should be the understanding of how to transition from one choke to the other and the conditions which may lead from one to the other. Really the issue should be neck manipulation i.e. chokes,cranks and head compressions with varied tools like forearm, crook of elbow,head and arm, leg and tricep, and styles like nightmare, straight arm, rear naked,I dream of Genie and triangle... Regards, Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S. Torrance, Ca. 90503 USA --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Chokes To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 21:26:43 PST Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > ... I don't see the advantage for the giver or the receiver. At some point we can dumb things down so far that we might as well just play videogames and imagine we are actually doing martial arts... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 23:45:04 -0800 From: Bill McG To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] FMA Empty Hands Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Ray Adorna wrote: "Please bear with me im new to mailing lists, but i was just curious; im studying eskrima now but im really interested in empty hand combat. Can anyone give me information on any filipino empty hand combative arts?" Guro Dan Inosanto has an interesting theory in that U.S. boxing changed once exposed to Filipino boxers during the U.S. occupation of the Philippines. The upright, arms foreword stance used in the U.S. in the early 1900's gave way to the bob and weave, arms in stance seen today because of Filipino martial arts. The Filipinos it seems were in essence doing knife techniques empty handed while training with the Americans. Tuhon Gaje always told us, and experience with the system has born this out, that the empty hands of Pekiti-Tirsia came out of its knife to knife technique. There is a section of Pekiti-Tirsia that focuses on empty hand entries, takedowns, locks and joint destruction called Pekiti de Mano. While it has a number of locks, I am often asked when I teach it why it does not have certain locks found in other arts. My reply is that the locks, even in an empty hand section of Pekiti-Tirsia, must still work if the opponent suddenly pulls a knife with his free hand during the lock. I have found that many weapons techniques in many FMA systems have either a direct or at least an indirect translation into empty hand techniques. To answer Ray's question more directly; when you look at the weapon work in a Filipino martial art, it is very likely that you are looking at that art's empty hand work as well. Regards, Tuhon Bill McGrath P.S. I will be giving a seminar that covers Pekiti de Mano on March 23rd in Nashua, N.H. For more information visit the seminar page on the PTI web site at: http://www.pekiti-tirsia.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 00:13:53 -0800 From: Bill McG To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Near West Point Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Eric Verzola wrote: "I received good info from Mr. Salvador, but was wodering if anyone else could tell me of the nearest FMA/Arnis/Eskrima/Kali instructors near West Point, NY? (West Point is about 50 miles north & of NYC) Thanks." I run a monthly seminar in Fishkill, NY which is about a 30 minute drive north of West Point. The next seminar will be held on March 9th. You can get full info from the PTI web site's seminar page at: http://www.pekiti-tirsia.com/seminars.html Regards, Tuhon Bill McGrath --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Jamie Hutchins To: "'eskrima@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:55:47 -0000 Subject: [Eskrima] All choked up.... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Ray et al... I quite agree with Ray that being choked out is a useful (if slightly dangerous) experience although perhaps not one you want to repeat regularly (but maybe when you find yourself getting blasé). Until recently I had read many articles and books where people where kind of implying that you shake it off and get back to hitting etc. A couple of months ago I volunteered to be choked out by my instructor. I was amazed at how quick it was from tunnel vision to totally out... Apparently whilst I was coming around I was twitching rapidly (which scared a lot of my class mates as they thought I was fitting), personally I was really relaxed, a little self conscious because of all these people staring at me and thinking that I was in the pub (I put it down to the music in the background). Anyway it was a humbling experience and really gave me a good insight into what I would/am capable of before, during and after a choke is put on me. Obviously there will be differences in 'real' situations where adrenalin comes into play but I certainly think this is a useful experience. I think it also gave some perspective to the lads I train with as I'm a fairly big guy (although no Dogzilla more like Dog-Zucki if you remember the cartoon) and it was so easy! Oh and for the head count I have never and would never volunteer to be choked through having my airway constricted (especially by acidic gas). Respects, Jamie -----Original Message----- From: Ray Terry [mailto:raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com] Sent: 21 February 2002 22:11 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] All choked up.... Very excellent post by Master Tommy "The Whip" Meadows snipped... > Ah, the real world. In the last fifteen years of martial arts training with > over thirty five instructors, ... Tom, you really gotta start taking more showers. :) ... > My other AikiJujitsu instructor used to have his instructors deliberately > ignore "tapping out" so we could see how it actually felt to pass out and > where our true limits were. Stupid training practice, but educational > nonetheless. Three seconds to tunnel vision, and two more for me to go out. Seems like if you're young(er) and in shape, a great practice, IMHO. I personally think it is a good idea to know what it feels like to get choked out. Yep, been there, felt that, and am still alive to tell about it. Tunnel vision, auditory exclusion, time warp, (brain damage?), all those fun things set in... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Kel620@aol.com Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 10:19:02 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Smelling Salts(Ammonia...) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I think that stuff is called "smelling salts". My mother is a nurse and that what she calls it....then again that might be what it's called in England. She worked as a nurse in Barbados, Scotland, England, then here in the USA. K. Williams In a message dated 2/21/02 10:31:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > L-O Folks, > Sorry to be off subject, but I'm just asking for one word, or one phrase > in the answer to my question. "What exactly is the stuff they wave in > front of boxers faces and people unconscious in an ambulance or ER?" Is > that ammonia? Yes, No, and if so, what is it? --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest