Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 20:23:31 -0800 (PST) From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #91 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sender: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Today's Topics: 1. The Law/You and weapons (Seraksatu@aol.com) 2. Afgan War photos (Bill McG) 3. quickie advert for PPL (Marc Denny) 4. Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #90 - 9 msgs (CArena7028@aol.com) 5. Re: use of closed folders (Brad J. Ellis) 6. Re: Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #90 - 9 msgs (Ray Terry) 7. more from National Geo (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Seraksatu@aol.com Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 09:30:46 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] The Law/You and weapons Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Selamat mas Argyll and all: This of course only my opinion. You are right in a sense to heed and care what the law would say, or being sued. For one that runs a martial art school it is a deffinite plus how to advise students to do so. The very question is "A life" mostly your own you are trying to protect. Most laws were made to apprehend the lawless and in the meantime that same law would deter the innocent from protecting one's selves. So for the beginner it is a hard one to crack, in what to do. On one side you hear the do nots and one side you are being taught a weapon. So, as a human is always searching and most of all in defense of oneself. Folks carry folders, and for what ever reason it may be. I always mention the do's and the do nots to my students. I let them decide. For a certainty, one's a person (Adult) decide, to carry the folder, then for sure learn the tool to defend one's life with great tenacity. There is no second change in a blade attack, and the ability the realy say "NO!!!, I will not be a Victim", for it is better then, to carry the one and your door can always be opened, then to be carried by six. For if you are carried by the six then your family have more sorrow of missing you, and your door is closed. An honest person that carries a tool to protect, that has to worry about what happen will inhibit his or her expertise from the proper training they received. We always hope from folks that carry tools, they have the proper training in the law aswell as how to use the tool with devesating results, and no quarter is asked or giving, the most important factor, a life, and hoping it is your own you will save. Take care for sure, for just that one blitzing moment that can take a life, it is only one's a tought to keep in mind. For myself I have learned to say No a long time ago Hormat, and Semperfi Pak Vic Message: 5 From: argyll@attbi.com To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: : [Eskrima] Legality of Using Closed Knife as Palm Stick Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:35:12 +0000 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net This is one of those legal questions for which there is no simple answer. Generally speaking in the United States whether you defend yourself with the end of a closed knife, a beer bottle, or a stick picked up off the ground, the real issue is whether the force used was legally justified. (Of course juries may percieve different instruments differently.) Depending on the circumstances one could always face the threat of being charged with assault with a deadly weapon. States vary as to what constitutes a deadly weapon for purposes for this crime. In some states bare hands and feet qualify, in others some object must be involved even if its just the shoe on the foot. Section 210.0 of the Model Penal Code, as referenced in Black's Law Dictionary, defines "deadly weapon" as "[a]ny firearm, or other weapon, device, instrument, material or substance, whether animate or inanimate, which in the manner it is used or is intended to be used is known to be capable of producing death or serious bodily injury." (Black's Law Dict. (6th ed. 1990) p. 398, col. 1.) In California the courts have said that "a 'deadly weapon' is 'any object, instrument, or weapon which is used in such a manner as to be capable of producing and likely to produce, death or great bodily injury.' . . 'Some few objects, such as dirks and blackjacks, have been held to be deadly weapons as a matter of law; the ordinary use for which they are designed establishes their character as such. . . . 'Other objects, while not deadly per se, may be used, under certain circumstances, in a manner likely to produce death or great bodily injury. In determining whether an object not inherently deadly or dangerous is used as such, the trier of fact may consider the nature of the object, the manner in which it is used, and all other facts relevant to the issue." People v. Aguilar (1997) 16 Cal.4th 1023 Sorry for the legnth. This is just my personal opinion, if really concerned its always best to consult with a lawyer familiar with local laws. Best regards, Argyll PS I recently did some quick-and-dirty research on Findlaw.com on how possession of escrima sticks might be treated under Califoria law. If your interested the results are at: http://www.martialtalk.com/showthread.php?s=d5f063478a83d 6b49805b964c314eb19&postid=9419#post9419 --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 09:01:16 -0800 From: Bill McG To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Afgan War photos Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I received some close up photos of a Taliban convoy getting hit by rocket fire from a U.S. fighter jet and have put them on my web site. http://pekiti-tirsia.com/humor_page.htm Click the last entry marked "Taliban Fliers" Regards, Tuhon Bill McGrath For more information visit the PTI web site at: http://www.pekiti-tirsia.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 07:44:34 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] quickie advert for PPL Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All: Concerning the question about the legality of using a closed knife: Nice post by Argyll and although I didn't have time to check it out, I've added the findlaw site to my favorites. Thanks. Please forgive my banging the drum on this one, but note the perennial point about "check the laws in your state" "consult with an attorney" etc. This reminds me of the joke about the guy who calls a lawyer and says "I've got two questions for you but only $500. Can you help me out anyway?" and the lawyer says "Sure, what's the other question?" On the other hand, if someone had "Pre-Paid Legal" for $16 a month, one could pick up the phone and ask a lawyer for free. You can do this any time you have a question, and some of us are curious indeed. See www.prepaidlegal.com/info/cynthiadenny.com or call my wife Cindy at 310-540-6853 for details. Yip, Crafty Dog --__--__-- Message: 4 From: CArena7028@aol.com Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 12:14:31 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #90 - 9 msgs Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Thank you for your honest reply. I have found myself in a position to be teaching an Arnis class in a local area GIG Harbor area (light duty type) karate school. I have had 4 years of training in Modern Arnis through Datu Kelly Worden. However, he closed his school a few years ago and I have not been able work wise to effectively attend his once a week backyard sessions. The opportunity to teach at this school was offered by a friend who is the head instructor there. I have no real credentials., , biut have taught a small class for almost two years now. I have met Khalid some time back and have been practicing on the side the basic Cablales drills, given to me by Khalid Kahn a year and a half ago. And, have found a Cabales student in the area that transferred up from down south.So I have been practicing the basics. I felt that if Khalid could test me then I could at least have some "certification" to pass on to this Karate school. It would sure be easier to just be a student in a local school as that is all I want. But if I can't find another (FMA) school in my area, then I could at least get stick time in this way. Unfortunately I seem to have upset some of my previous training partners. I posted this message in the digest per thier request and I feel that I should first honor the wishes of those that taught me in the past. Damn, I wish that Datu Worden could have kept his school open, but I also respect his decision to move on to better things and I still consider him my main teacher. And you are right. I am a good student. Chris --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 12:37:22 -0800 From: "Brad J. Ellis" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: use of closed folders Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I must wholeheartedly agree with Mr. Knuttel's 2 cents. I don't know the legality, especially here in California, but experience working as a bouncer has taught me a lot about drunks and pain. Alcohol really seems to make some people unaware of any kind of pain stimulus... I've seen a guy break his own wrist trying trying to throw a punch while he was locked in a "comealong" by security. Guntings aimed at soft tissue targets don't seem to work with drunks. They DO work as a means of slowing down and/or putting a bend in an arm to allow you to get ahold of it though, after which you can sweep, throw, hit, just plain old drag to the ground, and end your confrontation with the use of your newfound "handle". The extra impact you'd get with that folder doesn't seem to outweigh the potential negatives... what is your opponent doing while you are reaching for the weapon? how is the judge going to see it, especially if the guy is unarmed? could you be turning this from a shoving match into an actual knife fight? what if someone else sees you reaching into that pocket? (they always seem to have a buddy lurking around.) and lastly, god forbid, what if it gets taken from you? If you don't HAVE TO fight the guy to submission, if you have nothing or no one to defend, it's probably a better idea to just stick to the old poke-in-the-eye and boogie routine. -brad --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #90 - 9 msgs To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 16:13:52 PST Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Please... update your subject line. Please... update the subject lines. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 20:58:52 PST Subject: [Eskrima] more from National Geo Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net History of the Philippines Beginnings of the Archipelago [previously posted] Cross, Crown and Crescent [previously posted] Manila Entrepot: Junks and Galleons For more than 200 years Spain maintained strict control of a transpacific commerce that exchanged products between two hemispheres. In Manila high profits from the China-New Spain trade led colonial officials to neglect the interior's economic development in order to invest in the annual voyage of a Manila galleon. The Philippine government relied on the ship's safe arrival for subsidies and orders from New Spain. Loss of a galleon brought a year of destitution. Foreign competition in the late 1700s helped end this Spanish monopoly. American Era After purchasing the archipelago from Spain in 1898, the U.S. fought Philippine rebels to establish its sovereignty. A central issue of American rule was when Filipinos would be granted independence. The U.S. bought and redistributed church-owned lands, but most went to large landowners. Effective aid included better sanitation and health care. The widespread use of English in schools brought the colony greater linguistic unity. Access to U.S. manufactured items led the agrarian nation to ignore industrial development, except for mining, and focus on export crops. Stable currency, expanded roads, and interisland shipping enabled landowners to take advantage of free-trade privileges. A U.S.-based economy evolved. During the Depression, U.S. farmers pushed for Philippine autonomy in hopes of stopping favored-trade policies and protecting American produce prices. In 1935 the Filipino people accepted a U.S. offer of sovereignty to follow a ten-year interim under commonwealth status. Manuel Quezon, the first president, was in office when Japan attacked Luzon in December 1941. World War II Hours after the Pearl Harbor strike on December 7, 1941, Japanese attacks destroyed the U.S. air fleet on Luzon. Japanese forces invaded and defeated U.S.-Philippine troops under Gen. Douglas MacArthur. Prisoners from the fall of Bataan suffered the infamous Death March northward to Camp O'Donnell. The U.S. surrendered at Corregidor in May 1942. Soon after, Jose Laurel headed a puppet government, but most Filipinos remained loyal to the U.S. and to the commonwealth government-in-exile. Uncaptured Filipino and American soldiers joined a guerrila movement that assisted the liberation. Filipinos joyously welcomed MacArthur's return to Leyte in 1944 and in 1945 the homecoming of President Sergio Osmena's government. [continued] --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest