Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:17:01 -0800 (PST) From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #99 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sender: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Today's Topics: 1. reflections on the teacher (carl) 2. Re: Martial Arts & Legal Use of Force (Buz Grover) 3. Re: Better knife training helmets ? (gints@att.net) 4. Afghan photos (rklampfer@mindspring.com) 5. Re: Knife practice (gints@att.net) 6. Martial Arts & Legal Use of Force (AnimalMac@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "carl" To: Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:32:55 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] reflections on the teacher Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >There was one post awhile back that wanted to know what the rest > of the board thought about an instructor certificate from Khalid Khan. The > measure of an instructor is in their students. If you are a student of > someone then I observe you more than I do your instructor when I am gauging > how good your instructor is. That is mainly how I judge an instructor. I > would assume that if one is issued an instructor certificate then the one > that issued it has observed the student when they are instructing and are > comfortable in their instructional capability. As many know on this board > instructing is not easy. I have known many great martial artists but a few of > them couldn't teach worth a darn. I am very careful about who I allow to > teach because they are a direct reflection on myself. Rob, I totally disagree with you. No insult intended, but your post misses the reason for teaching. Your goal is not to make reflections of yourself. MacDoJo comes to mind when this happens. MacDojo can be a formula for business success but the goal of every good , and often times poor, teacher is to guide his student toward his own enlightenment or "JKD" . The hope is that the student takes the teacher's teaching and eclipses the teacher. That is the only way the art evolves as a complete fighting system. Look at the huge number of instructor level guys from Guro/Sifu Inosanto as an example. They all had the same stuff but no one could say (high profile guys like) Vunak,Richardson, Denney, Paulson, Nakmura, or Hartsell teach or even emphasize the same cirriculim. So if you are a student you have two choices. You can color within the lines or eat from a very fruitful tree. The student or instructor is rarely a measure of the teacher. I have been around longer than some of those high profile guys and I can tell you I'm no Paulson and that shortcoming is certainly no reflection on my teacher. Regards, Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S. Torrance, Ca. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:26:17 -0500 From: "Buz Grover" Organization: George Mason University To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Martial Arts & Legal Use of Force Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I think the legal use of force posts have been useful, though a little too one-size-fits-all for my tastes. For instance, my instructor is a 20 year Navy SEAL; many of the folks training at his academy have a special forces background. I don't think folks heading toward a battlefield would be well served learning how to apply force in a US civil environment. I think they are a lot better off learning how to act quickly and decisively in a battlefield environment. They're on the sharp end of the US spear point; they need to train for the realities they are likely to encounter. I think most other use of force questions are similarly situational. Running into a gent wielding a box cutter on a street corner warrants one type of response, running into the same gent on an airplane warrants another. Similarly, I suspect I would respond far differently to a street attack if my kids were around than if they weren't. I don't think there is a single right answer or approach, rather I think there is a continuum along which one can find many shades of gray. On one end of the continuum is that testosterone addled meathead at the gym looking for trouble, at the other are the 5 guys with drawn sidearms wearing a ramshackle collection of isolation gear you stumble upon as they unload large cylinders festooned with biohazard warnings in an alley a couple of blocks from the Capitol. Between smiling and walking away and going into full bore, no quarter, battle mode there are a range of responses and possibilities. With a lot of luck, you might be the only one second guessing yourself. It's more likely, though, the folks second guessing you will be looking at your actions in a fairly narrow legal context. My guess is the place Animal is going with his last post involves how to frame your actions in a manner that will keep the second guessers from slapping the cuffs on you. I'd like to suggest, though, that you gotta play the hand that's dealt you as best you can; there are plenty of situations where options are limited and a series of choices need to be made quickly. I think it's smart to heed street fighters with legal savvy, listen to police perspectives, ask a lawyer his opinion, and know the laws in your community. However, when the blade is coming toward your belly you need to react rather than worry about what the District Attorney will do. Regards, Buz Grover --__--__-- Message: 3 From: gints@att.net To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Better knife training helmets ? Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 20:41:48 +0000 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 05:56:04 -0800 (PST) >From: Dave Belanger > >I use racketball goggles and dry erase markers. >My students wear a fresh white t-shirt and then enjoy >checking each others "wounds" after matches. This sounds like fun. But, it sounds like you're not going for full force, full speed thrusts to the face. I've trained with raquetball goggles, but I wouldn't trust them to protect my eyes from face thrusts even with magic markers. --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:48:12 -0500 From: To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Afghan photos Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I saw the same photos a couple of years ago. They were presented as being from the Russian's fight with the Chechen's. Rob --__--__-- Message: 5 From: gints@att.net To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Knife practice Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 20:57:53 +0000 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >The first question that I would ask would be what is >the main purpose of your knife training? Hi Rob, Actually, we met at Suro Inay's funeral. I enjoyed listening to all of the old training stories. Guro John Peterson showed me some old footage of you in action. >Is it sparring or is it self defense because as you >know the two are radically different. We're progressing from sparring to self-defense. New guys start off with matched weapons. After some experience, we pair up short aluminum knife against an unarmed combatant. The purpose is to develop full-speed proficiency of knife defense, among other weapons. It's a joy to put the knife in the hands of a newbie and watch just how difficult it is to deal with the unpredictable. We let the guys go for 90 second rounds that are essentially 10 short fights. >You might think about investing in one good >quality helmet. Have the defender put on the good >helmet and whatever else >you might require in the way of protection then give >the attacker the knife >and have them attack. This would more closely resemble >the knife >altercations that I have witnessed or researched. We're currently using fencing helmets and the caged Macho helmets. The fencing helmets off good protection, but limit visibility. The caged mesh is too big to offer adequate protection against knives and finger thrusts. It's important >It's very rare that both >participants have knives or that both were able to >deploy their knives. Agreed. But, dual knife/stick sparring or training is a lot of fun. Thank you for your suggestions. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: AnimalMac@aol.com Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:10:28 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Martial Arts & Legal Use of Force Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >From Marc MacYoung It turns out that it is the same source as Mr Bill cited but with a few more details...but the devil is in the details. The challenge still stands, find the caveats that -- with how the report is written up -- undermine this whole self-defense plea and leaves you with a possible manslaughter, or, more likely assault with a deadly weapon. It ain't just the law, it's the precidents that will getcha. § 35.00 Penal. Justification; a defense. § 35.05 Penal. Justification; generally. § 35.10 Penal. Justification; use of physical force generally. § 35.15 Penal. Justification; use of physical force in defense of a person. § 35.20 Penal. Justification; use of physical force in defense of premises and in defense of a person in the course of burglary. § 35.25 Penal. Justification; use of physical force to prevent or terminate larceny or criminal mischief. § 35.27 Penal. Justification; use of physical force in resisting arrest prohibited. § 35.30 Penal. Justification; use of physical force in making an arrest or in preventing an escape. ===================================================== § 35.15 Penal. Justification; use of physical force in defense of a person. 1. A person may, subject to the provisions of subdivision two, use physical force upon another person when and to the extent he reasonably believes such to be necessary to defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of unlawful physical force by such other person, unless: (a) The latter's conduct was provoked by the actor himself with intent to cause physical injury to another person; or (b) The actor was the initial aggressor; except that in such case his use of physical force is nevertheless justifiable if he has withdrawn from the encounter and effectively communicated such withdrawal to such other person but the latter persists in continuing the incident by the use or threatened imminent use of unlawful physical force; or (c) The physical force involved is the product of a combat by agreement not specifically authorized by law. 2. A person may not use deadly physical force upon another person under circumstances specified in subdivision one unless: (a) He reasonably believes that such other person is using or about to use deadly physical force. Even in such case, however, the actor may not use deadly physical force if he knows that he can with complete safety as to himself and others avoid the necessity of so doing by retreating; except that he is under no duty to retreat if he is: (i) in his dwelling and not the initial aggressor; or (ii) a police officer or peace officer or a person assisting a police officer or a peace officer at the latter's direction, acting pursuant to section 35.30; or (b) He reasonably believes that such other person is committing or attempting to commit a kidnapping, forcible rape, forcible sodomy or robbery; or (c) He reasonably believes that such other person is committing or attempting to commit a burglary, and the circumstances are such that the use of deadly physical force is authorized by subdivision three of section 35.20. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. 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