Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 18:45:05 -0700 (PDT) From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #128 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sender: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Today's Topics: 1. Seminar Warriors-Eskrima (christianvonpraun@web.de) 2. Re: Disarms again (Kes41355@aol.com) 3. Blade Disarms (Bill McG) 4. Re: Situational Disarming (Ron Reekers) 5. Inayan Eskrima seminar in Paris, France (Stephane Fernandez) 6. Re: Benjamin Rittner (Bill Lowery) 7. Dan Inosanto's push knife (Alfonso Pescador) 8. Disarms and last post by Ray Terry in Vol. 9 #127 (Danny Anderson) 9. Re: disarms (Jeff Inman) 10. Disarming Techniques in different arts (Andrew R Breton) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 14:13:14 +0200 Organization: http://freemail.web.de/ From: To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Seminar Warriors-Eskrima Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net There will be a Warriors-Eskrima Seminar on April 4 th 2002 in Düsseldorf/Germany. For more information please contact christianvonpraun@web.de _____________________________________________________________________________ _ Für alle, die nicht genug WEB.DE bekommen können. 100 MB Speicher, 01212-Nummer und mehr E-Mail unter http://club.web.de/?mc=021101 --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Kes41355@aol.com Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 08:20:42 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Disarms again Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi all, Another point that came to mind when perusing the disarm posts, is that, to me, disarms are like trapping...if the opportunity presents itself, take it, but don't seek it. Both are worthwhile skills to possess, because disarms, like trapping, work best on someone who has not been previously exposed to either concept; once they have figured out your objective, the fight is probably back in your control. Train them both to have at your disposal, but rely on your basic combat skills for your base, and to see you through the confrontation. One of my teachers, Ben Berry, hammered into us to never commit to a technique such as disarming or trapping unless you had inflicted a little pain first. Ben's first move, after an evasive or defensive move, would always be a little shot such as an eye flick, stomp to the toes, or smashing the attacking hand. Ben was a master of this concept, and we found that it gave us that half-second window of opportunity to accomplish the disarm, trap, takedown, or whatever was needed to gain control and finish the job. As for Ray's mention of blade oriented arts and stick oriented arts, he and I are both Inayan players, and the fact that all training done with sticks ultimately simulates and prepares us for blade combat is a cornerstone of Inayan Eskrima. Suro Mike Inay, and my teacher (Suro Mike's student) Rob McDonald, always emphasized that we were using sticks to simulate the blade, and we were always to be in that mindset. Both of Suro Mike's teachers, Angel Cabales and Max Sarmiento, were highly accomplished blade men, and both men brought a wealth of "real world" knowledge to training. Kim --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 11:40:14 -0700 From: Bill McG To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Blade Disarms Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Ray wrote: "When I think and talk disarms (in this thread), I've been thinking blade disarms. I note that others seem to be thinking stick. Nothing wrong with that, just an observation. Back to the old 'is Eskrima a stick or blade art'? Yes it is both. But I first tend to think of it as a blade art. Others probably think of it first as a stick art. Thus all my comments/points about disarm training were made with a blade attack in mind." It hasn't happened that often, but I have had to deal with serious blade attacks in real life. When I was about 20 I worked as a plan cloths security guard in a small department store in Jamaica, Queens, NY. The store manager recognized two pickpockets entering the store and confronted them. They challenged them and he agreed (duh!)seeing that the uniformed security guard and I were approaching. Outside I saw one of the two pickpockets put his hand in his pocket knew he was going for a blade. He drew a straight razor. As he opened it, I grabbed him in an inside wristlock and threw him up against a car and disarmed him. The other pickpocket took off and the uniform security guard refused to cuff the guy I grabbed because it was outside the store, so we let him go. Incident # 2 occurred in 1993. I was now a court officer working at (coincidently) the Jamaica, Queens courthouse. I was done for the day and changing in the locker room when we got a distress call over the radio about an EDP (emotionally disturbed person) with a meat cleaver in the judge's parking lot at the rear of the courthouse. We all charged down there and found a ring of officers surrounding a 55 year old female, meat cleaver in hand, tears streaming down her face, saying over and over, "Kill me, I want to die." The officers had made a complete circle around her and I thought "This is not good." If someone shot the EDP then the round was likely to overpenitrate and hit an officer (we were using .38's with 158 grain lead semi-wadcutters back then). I drew my ASP baton while another officer approached her from behind. I came in and struck her on the forearm. She pulled her arm back and the other officer was able to grab it. The officer tried to take her to the ground, but she continued to struggle. I then applied the baton two or three more times to her arm and then three times to her legs. We then basically tackle her to the ground with our combined bodyweight. What was interesting, was that it was only when she hit the ground, that she finally let go of the meat cleaver. Latter at the hospital, her arm swelled up pretty good, but she didn't let go of the blade even after several good hits (we later learned that she was coming off a three day vodka binge and was fairly well anesthetized going into the fight). Here is the order in which I teach blade defenses in my classes. 1. Parry and flow drills to develop timing. 2. When, where and how to strike against a blade attack. 3. Disarms, blade reversals, joint destructions, takedowns, escapes, etc. Regards, Tuhon Bill McGrath For more information visit the PTI web site at: http://www.pekiti-tirsia.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Ron Reekers" To: Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 09:34:43 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Situational Disarming Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I'd like to put my 2 cents into this thread. IMHO learning to use disarming techniques from the stand point of situation is important. There are various situations that calls for different approaches to disarming. For instance, in a street situation where we both have bladed weapons then a more direct approach would be warranted. On the other hand, if your wife comes at you with a knife you may want to take a more indirect approach to disarming. Of course the second situation would never really happen...right? Anyway, my point is that disarms within a program is important. It requires a clear understanding of methods and situations combined with enough training time to master it. As far as the question, "How much time should one spend on disarming", is again a product of your situation. I don't know how to quantify it beyond that. However, I'd have to agree that a disproportionate amount of time spent on disarming isn't necessary. It's very subjective though. Thanks, Great Topic Ron http://www.thundercenter.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Stephane Fernandez" To: Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 18:40:25 +0100 Subject: [Eskrima] Inayan Eskrima seminar in Paris, France Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Inayan Eskrima seminar in Paris, France Featuring Masirib Guro Emanuel Hart from Inayan Systems International, Senior Full Instructor under the late Mangisursuro Mike Inay founder of Inayan Eskrima. Date: the 4th and 5th of may 2002 (4 hours each day) Program: single stick, double stick, knife and empty hands based on concepts, principles, drills and techniques from different styles within Inayan Eskrima (Kadena de mano, Serrada, Larga Mano, Sinawali, Decuerdas). contact: fernandez@inayaneskrima.com or call 00 33 1 42 33 34 39. Stephane Fernandez IFE Instructor www.inayaneskrima.com fernandez@inayaneskrima.com Inayan Systems International --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Bill Lowery" To: Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 19:21:37 +0100 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Benjamin Rittner Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi All, Just wanted to say that I met Benjamin when he was in Birmingham (UK) for Crafty's first UK seminar, and again last year at the Pekiti-Tirsia camp in Germany. A talent, caring, and unusually in my experience, a thoughtful martial artist. He is already a credit to the martial arts, and I'm sure will be to the Dog Brothers. Bill Lowery --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 21:03:19 +0200 From: Alfonso Pescador To: Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Dan Inosanto's push knife Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Dear all, I remember some years ago Dan Inosanto advertising in a martial arts magazine a very small push knife. It was very simillar to Cold Steel's but much smaller and with a wrist sheath. Does anybody know what brand it was and where can I get one? Regards Alfonso --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Danny Anderson" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 20:35:36 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Disarms and last post by Ray Terry in Vol. 9 #127 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Ray, None of the comments I have read in this forum have been take by me as an attack on my book.  They have been points of view given by (what sounds like to me) seasoned practitioners and not armchair quarterbacks.  I personally like paracticing disarms to increase my sensitivity and leverage training.  Unfortunately, there are many situations and distances in which disarming takes a back seat (and sometimes a distant one at that) in ones defensive options.  That's life when being hit at with a stick, eh?  It's nice to read a thread which isn't steeped in everybody being pissed off. Yours, Dan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: Click Here --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 16:22:56 -0600 From: Jeff Inman To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: disarms Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Ray wrote: > And here I thought all you DB types were just half-wits like Crafty... We represent all different sorts of half-wits. Jeff --__--__-- Message: 10 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 20:34:45 -0500 From: Andrew R Breton Subject: [Eskrima] Disarming Techniques in different arts Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Marco, The disarming techniques are there: Western fencing - In the earlier manuals. Silver, for example, speaks of "grippes", Marazzo (?spelling) has knife disarms, Meyer has sword disarms. Kenjitsu - Numerous disarms in various schools. Also bo and jojitsu (long and short staff) have disarms. Bayonet - Russian arts which focus more on bayonet have a number of bayonet disarms. I think when you learn the entirety of a system like FMA, you get to the point where you reach the "incidental and accidental" techniques like disarms. By that point, you've already practiced and ingrained say 85% of the likely scenarios and you look for techniques for the other 15%. I'm sure someone said "hey, I could make him lose his weapon here, then I'd be at a tremendous advantage" and it became part of the system. When you look back at all you've learned and try to place it in it's proper order in a system, it becomes difficult to place disarms. You probably learned to visually and kinestetically recognize the "place" the disarm could happen well before you learned the technique. I'm most familiar with Pekiti. In methods like "dakup y punyo" (punyo sumbrada), five attacks, inside and especially outside tapping, break in break out, you become familiar with the placement of the weapons before you even learn there could be a disarm there. I think the 'counter for counter' disarms is also an important training method - an example of not giving up even if you lose your weapon. It also becomes weapon retention. The question is often asked not of learning a system over long periods of time, but of teaching a "basic training" course in the weapon. For the rifle, in your example, any time you spend on disarms in a basic training stituation is time away from shooting practice. If you're going to teach close quarters at all in that short period of time, you teach aggressive attacks rather than intricate disarms. Andy --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest