Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 02:04:12 -0700 (PDT) From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #133 - 4 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sender: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Today's Topics: 1. Re: Surviving edged weapons (Michael Kautz) 2. RE: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #132 Surviving edged weapons (Kjowers194@cs.com) 3. Glock Pistols (Ray Terry) 4. Pak Victor/My retort (Musilat@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Kautz.Kraft@t-online.de (Michael Kautz) To: Date: 10 Apr 2002 11:49 GMT Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Surviving edged weapons Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi, I agree with you, Ray, that there must be other, newer and better productions on the market than the tape "Surviving edged weapons". It was a good video ten years ago to get the real fear of edged weapons, so LEOs started training self defense and especially in germany they got another look for such weapon situations. In the meanwhile I prefer for students, beginners and "not so experienced Leos" the Abanico Production "Reactive Knife", one of the last projects of our beloved Suro. CU Michael Kautz Karlsruhe, Germany --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 09:38:56 -0400 From: Kjowers194@cs.com To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #132 Surviving edged weapons Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Ray wrote : >???  I'm curious...  Do folks really believe Surviving Edged Weapons is the >finest LEO training video ever?  It is good, yes.  But it was made something >like ~15 years ago.  Has nothing better been produced in all those years? > >Ray Terry >raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com As a FTO and a martial artist, I see this tape as one of the best as far as graphically making one aware of the dangers of a knife. This in turn SHOULD make an officer seek out further training in regards to defending against an edged weapon, but it usually does not. Now as far as tactical uses of a knife, I've not seen or heard of any other law enforcement videos by Tuhon Gaje, but I have read that he continues to actively teach law enforcement/military in the Phillipines (someone with a little more info on this would be appreciated). A sequel to this tape (covering some type of tactical training/application of the blade and defending against it) would prove very interesting :).......... Just my .02 worth Ken Jowers --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:37:37 PDT Subject: [Eskrima] Glock Pistols Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Potentially interesting info related to your FMA weapons training, from the ASLET list. Ray Forwarded message: >Greetings > >OUR DEPARTMENT >As of April 1999 any Deputy hired by the Dane County Sheriff's Office >(Madison WI) is required to purchase and carry a Glock pistol. We allow the >G17 or G19 (9mm) as primary, and the G26 (baby Glock) as a secondary weapon. >We allow only two weapons registered w/ the department and carried on or >off duty. Our department is about 425 sworn deputies. About half of the >department is now using the Glock (mostly the G17). The rest of the >department carries Sig, S&W, Beretta, H&K, Ruger, and a hand full of >revolvers left. > >AD's >As of this date the DCSO has had NO AD's. We require everyone switching to >the Glock to attend a 4-hour Glock Transition course. New Employees attend >the same training as part of their first week of orientation. During this >training we stress FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER until you have made the decision >to fire! We also stress the correct method for field stripping the weapon >(where most Glock AD's happen). The main point here that is missed is REMOVE >THE SOURCE OF THE AMMO FIRST, THEN CLEAR THE CHAMBER BY LOCKING THE SLIDE TO >THE REAR. Only after this is done, and a visual and physical check of the >chamber is completed does the person send the slide forward and pull the >trigger to field strip the weapon. > >Another agency in the county had TWO ADs because the correct procedure >wasn't followed. When the trigger was pulled to field strip the weapon a >round was launched into the wall of the weapons cleaning room. While I do >wish Glock had added a separate button to disconnect the back of the trigger >bar from the firing pin lug. Pulling the trigger to field strip ISN'T a >problem if correct clearing procedure is followed. Good classroom >instruction and repeated classroom practice can take care of this problem >as demonstrated by our departments record of NO AD's. > >GLOCK 17 VS GLOCK 19 > >I didn't believe it myself until I checked, but there really isn't any >advantage of going to the Glock 19 over the 17. When you look at the three >9mm's (17, 19, & 26) you would swear that there is a size difference that >would help a person with smaller hands. The FACT is that all three weapons >have the same grip diameter, and they all three have the same distance from >the back strap to the trigger. The Glock 17 holds 17rnds (plus one) and the >Glock 19 holds 15rnds (plus one). This shortens the grip length by the space >of two rounds. The other difference is the length. The G17 overall length >is 6.49" and the Glock 19 is 6.02". Less than 1/2 inch total. > >TRIGGER SPRING > >The DCSO requires the NY1 trigger spring. The advantage is that there is NO >slack in the trigger. You get the same trigger pull first time, every time >which helps muscle memory. The other is that the connector is a 5 lbs >connector. Adding the NY1 trigger spring increases the pull to around 8lbs. >This is less than most double action trigger pulls but more than most single >action trigger pulls. Thus you end up with a middle of the road trigger pull >that isn't too easy to pull when startled, but not as heavy as the old >revolvers were. (In theory!) > >PRO & CON SINCE SWITCHING > >Having been a firearms instructor since 1984 I can say I see fewer problems >with my Glock shooters, and see marked improvement in people that switch to >the Glock. As time goes on I have become more and more convienced there >is NO place in law enforcement for "Decocking Levers". I see people having >problems with hitting the decocking lever and not knowing it, disabeling >their weapon, or forgetting to decock, etc. The Glock has no decocking lever >to be accidentally activated. > >The Glock has a very good Trigger Reset. Being an old S&W guy I love the >trigger reset of the Glock. The trigger pull isn't as smooth as my old Smith >669, but the reset is so close I can't tell the difference. The only other >weapon this close to my Fav. S&W is the H&K USP which has a .25 inch reset. > >A Big advantage is the repair. The armorer traiing is only one day. and the >average part in the Glock cost less than $6, so a parts inventory is less >costly as is the repair itself. > >The Glock is Very durable. We had a new deputy put is Glock in the >tupperware box and place it on the roof of his vehicle while he loaded his >car. He forgot to take the weapon off the roof and started down the hwy. At >about 55mph he notice the box w/ the wepon fly off the back of the car. The >weapon came out of the box and slide down the road about 100 feet. He >brought the weapon to the range. It had a missing butt plate, floor plate, >and spring from the mag (as well as the ammo missing) The front and rear >sight were missing. It had a nasty looking area of road rash on the back end >of the slide. We took it out to the range as it was. We put a new mag in it >and fired it. It never missed a beat. The total cost to repair the weapon >was under $12. He still carries the same weapon today. > >The one down side to the Glock is part of one of the upsides. The Glock has >a Hexagonal Barrel. This makes the weapon more accurate and gives a higher >muzzle velocity. The down side is you CAN NOT shoot leaded ammo through the >weapon. You should only shoot fully jacketed ammo (which cost a little >more). A department in this county continued to shoot the cheap reloaded >lead ammo when they switched to the Glock. They had a few shooters who >didn't clean the weapon well enough and ended up with a lead build up in the >barrel. As a result the diameter of the barrel was decreased and at some >point in the process the diameter shrunk to the point that the next round >got stuck halfway down the barrel. The following round made a really cool >bulge in the barrel. This happened about six times before they switched to >the fully jacketed ammo, and the battle of the bulge was completed. > >HOLSTER >The officer can buy what ever holster they want. Most use the Safariland >200-83 standard thumb break. We have a few people uning the new Safariland >with the rotating hood (no extra add-ons). > >A little long winded, but I hope this helps. Please feel free to call if you >have any specific questions about my comments. > >Deputy III James R Hitt >Dane County Sheriff's Office >Dane County Law Enforcement Training Center >5184 State Road 19 >Waunakee WI 53597-9675 >PH: (608) 849-2664 | FAX (608) 849-2666 --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 20:50:12 -0400 From: Musilat@aol.com To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Pak Victor/My retort Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Pak Victor, In your response to my post, you suggested that I would take a defensive posture if my fighting ability was criticized. That assumption is incorrect. In fact, I spent some time working as a doorman in a bar with some rather hardcore customers who insulted me in just that way on an almost daily basis. My response? I always maintained my composure and talked them out of wanting to fight me...every time. Now if someone like me (with far less experience than yourself) could avoid reacting out of anger, one would think that you wouldn't even bother to dignify someones criticism with a response. I just don't think that reacting out of anger is a mature (high level) way to handle things. So...please do not confuse my nature with yours. When I said that "we practice martial arts, we don't cure cancer", I was simply trying to put what we do into perspective. We practice very beautiful arts to be sure. Will they change the world? Probably not. Is it worth getting crazy over? Definitely not. Your angry reaction showed not one sign of humility. I realize that English is not your first language and that I may have missed your points in the same way you missed mine. That said, I must admit that your passion is admirable despite being somewhat misdirected. My best to you as well Pak Victor. Regards, Steve Kohn --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest