Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 00:48:34 -0700 (PDT) From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #150 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sender: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Today's Topics: 1. Disarms (Eric Taimanglo) 2. Disarms and pain as a deterrence (Jesse Manibusan) 3. Oh, that's what it is (Marc Denny) 4. Re: GM Buot (Kes41355@aol.com) 5. bringing weapons on a plane (Eric Taimanglo) 6. Re: Disarms.... a real world situation (Kjowers194@cs.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:39:05 -0700 From: "Eric Taimanglo" Organization: Lycos Mail (http://mail.lycos.com:80) Subject: [Eskrima] Disarms Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I remember the first time I learned disarms..."Wow...my partner's stick went flying! Suhweet! Let someone come after me with a stick now..." Of course, when time came for fighting, I ended up not looking for a stick strike to land...I wanted to DISARM!!!! I remember having my checking hand around my partner's wrist, ready to snake his stick into the far reaches of space, when all he did was switch hands and crack me on the bridge of my nose with a nice vertical abaniko...guess whose mind was in the right place? Ah ha ha!!! " A technique is mere geometry, intent and energy applied by a fear-stricken individual." See Dave Matthews Band live or win a signed guitar http://r.lycos.com/r/bmgfly_mail_dmb/http://win.ipromotions.com/lycos_020201/splash.asp --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:19:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Jesse Manibusan To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Disarms and pain as a deterrence Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net --- Jesse Manibusan wrote: > > The other > > officer had his 26" Asp > > >baton out and struck the subject in the forearm, > visibly > > breaking the > > >radial > > >bone with this strike. > > This sounds like the officers found themselves in that > unlucky .5 % of all altercations where you meet up with > Superman. Lucky they made it out alive. Question: how > possible is it to actually grasp anything when you have a > broken bone in your arm? The reason I ask this question > is > because I am wondering if there is any way to physically > make someone incapable of holding a weapon. I can think > of > only 2 ways: (1) Choke them and put them to sleep or (2) > cut their thumb off. I am not saying this as a possible > solution to the problem the officers had. If they had > broken the subjects thumb, would that have caused him to > be > unable to hold the weapon? Perhaps the focus should be > to > make the subject incapable of weapon instead of > inflicting > enough pain to hopefully make them drop the weapon, being > more offensive than defensive. Now the hard part: > getting > close enough to do it without getting yourself killed in > the process. > > > The subject NOT drop the > > screwdriver and the officer > > >struck him again on the wrist (the guy was still > trying > > to get at the other > > >officer) breaking it as well. Still the screwdriver > was > > not dropped. He > > >struck the broken forearm AGAIN, causing the suspect > to > > pause for a moment > > >(still didn't drop the screwdriver). Officers tackled > > him and wrestled the > > >screwdriver from his hand. Bones were broken bad > enough > > to be taken to > > >Memphis (78 miles away) for immediate surgery. Guy > said > > it hurt, but that's > > >all. > > I think pain is a good deterrent but not a fool-proof > one. > Your story is one of many I have heard where a motivated > subject just endures so much pain and just doesn't follow > the expected reaction. Personally, I would have been > scared s%$tless if I were in that situation. > Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more > http://games.yahoo.com/ Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:19:37 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Oh, that's what it is Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All: > From Marc Animal MacYoung > > These days it's easier to just stick it in your checked bags. I travel > frequently to teach knife seminars and to do so I bring a battery of blades. > I always stick the knives in a zippered smaller bag inside my main luggage. > I also make it a habit to carry copies of my books/videos, business cards > and any other "official" martial arts material like a copy of black belt > magazine or school information -- including a flyer for the seminar that I > am going to. That way, at a glance the inspectors know why I have what I > have in the bag. My bags have been searched several times, in my travels and > I have had no problems in many different countries (Okay so it helps that > the information also indicates that I am coming in to teach cops, but that's > just a added bennie). They just figure I am a martial artist and pass me > through. > > In addition, I have also learned a very useful trick, when I travel, I > always go in a suit and tie. Yes, it is less comfortable, but it is balanced > out by the fact that I am treated better by the airlines and have less > trouble in security. , , , The suit combined with a friendly, polite and > understanding attitude has gotten me through the few times I have been > searched much, much faster. My experience seconds Animal's. I don't wear a suit and tie (actually some serious fashion felony coveralls because they are so comfortable) and get extra-checked often. Coming back from Madrid I was given 'the special' and had everyone of my bag's opened and gone through thoroughly. My stick bag, which had plenty of knives too, aroused considerable curiosity. Fortunately I had a couple of magazine articles about me, including in Spanish, with me and all was well. A friendly thumbs up and a hearty "Bien hecho" for the article and I was on my way. Crafty --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Kes41355@aol.com Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 19:52:15 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: GM Buot Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 4/23/02 4:06:28 AM US Eastern Standard Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: << To those concerned GM Teddy Buot was involved in fairly serious car accident on Thursday, he suffered some pretty bad broken ribs, and bruises. His wife is in intensive care in Detroit, but every thing seems to look good, thank God . From what GM Buots sister in law told me the car rolled over a couple of times, so they are very lucky!!! Dr. Buot is over seeing their recovery. I would like to wish them a speedy recovery. Rocky Pasiwk Chief Instructor Anciong Bacons original Balintawak Founder of Cuentada DeMano >> Rocky, My best wishes go out to GM Buot, his wife, and family, for a speedy recovery. Kim Satterfield --__--__-- Message: 5 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 23:14:10 -0700 From: "Eric Taimanglo" Organization: Lycos Mail (http://mail.lycos.com:80) Subject: [Eskrima] bringing weapons on a plane Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net True, Marc, those methods outlined by you have worked for you. But let's be honest here; the occurences of Sept 11 have security personnel looking at bags a little bit closer; the guy who posed the question regarding bringing weapons on board a plane was Filipino, I believe; given the recent introduction of Abu Sayaf into the media, coupled with the fact that blades were used in the nefarious deeds of Sept 11, gave me reason to offer my two bits to him. Maybe I'm the only Filipino out there who thinks this, but blades and Filpinos carrying them are just something else for the media and security personnel to jump on. I know of no one who likes to stand in a line, much less a line out of which you are snatched because you have a "training" Barong, Balisong, or Kris. "But, see, I practice Filipino Martial Arts, and I use these for training." Unless you have a piece of paper that says to security, "This guy/gal is not a threat", then I recommend mailing the items to yourself. I have done my share of traveling, in Europe and Asia; I have never been detained by security. Why? Because they never had any reason to. No weapons, save the smelly socks in my overnight bag...ah gwah haa... See Dave Matthews Band live or win a signed guitar http://r.lycos.com/r/bmgfly_mail_dmb/http://win.ipromotions.com/lycos_020201/splash.asp --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Kjowers194@cs.com Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:32:56 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Disarms.... a real world situation Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net n a message dated 4/23/02 3:26:51 PM Central Daylight Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: << Message: 4 From: "Marc Macyoung" To: Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:05:48 -0600 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Re: Disarms.... a real world situation Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From Marc Animal MacYoung >> Amen, hallelujah and oh man ain't that the truth.... I have a real serious distrust of the current trend in training of relying on pain to cause a person to react "just so." My dislike for it was summed up perfectly by Justin Kocher, a Danzin ryu player who said "Pain doesn't control people, people choose to comply. If there is something more important to me than the pain, I won't decide to comply -- I will keep on attacking." Unfortunately, much of the ideas behind common training is based on fighting a "reasonable" opponent. One who will make a rational decision that the pain is too great, make a direct correlation between his actions and the pain and cease those actions. Unfortunately, reasonable people don't get in fights nor do they threaten police with screwdrivers. In other words, if homeslice doesn't choose to comply you have a problem on your hands...the biggest part of the problem being that said person can do a lot of damage to you BEFORE he is overwhelmed via other means. This is especially true if you have a battery of non-lethal toys that you are going through trying to find something that will work on someone who isn't playing by the rules. And believe me, I have seen many an officer frantically and repeatedly doing the same ineffective move over and over again wondering why it didn't work, while the bad boy is barrelling down on them. Ken what you might want to consider is looking into options that do not rely on pain alone. For example I have a partner that comes along with me on all calls, his name is Mr. Gravity. I have never met anyone who is so tough, so big, so bad, so whacked out that Mr. Gravity doesn't take control of when I introduce them. This is not to say that pain isn't part of the process, but you can ignore pain, you just can't ignore gravity very easily. Come to think of it, it's also kind of hard to ignore when your central nervous system is shut down, but to do that you need something bigger than just a stick. >> Hooked on Gravity worked for me too!!! Seriously, I always try to down a person through either compliance ( get on the ground ) or some type of pain, or a combination of sensory overload (hitting them everywhere, That LEO's are allowed to that is :) ) and gravity. The officers involved in this case are some guys I work with. They have not swung a stick in training in at least three years (our use of force instructor offers plenty of darned good advice, just crappy training) . My personal belief ,so far, is that with the least amount of force necessary to effect the arrest, I put them on the ground any way I have to. I'm going home. My mother would kill me if I got killed out there!!! --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. 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