Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 00:07:56 -0700 (PDT) From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #161 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sender: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Today's Topics: 1. tips for doormen, part two (Patrick Davies) 2. Sayoc transition drills (Jamie Hutchins) 3. Modern Arnis Summit (Dinnelle Wright) 4. Re: Marc MacYoung (ABurrese@aol.com) 5. Re: tips for doormen (Jesse Manibusan) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Patrick Davies To: 'eskrima digest' Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 10:04:02 +0100 Subject: [Eskrima] tips for doormen, part two Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Steve Kohn wrote: Anyway. Here are a few tips for doormen: 1) If you have to eject someone, take him aside to do it so as not to humiliate him in front of his friends. 2) Sometimes it is best to ask a more sober friend of the offending customer to "take care of your buddy" or "bring him back on another night". Sometimes letting him, or his friends know that he is not "86d" for good can keep things from getting crazy. Pat D: Agreed, you need to identify the alpha male of the group and approach them. Try and get them to sort the problem for you. If they cant they will be more understanding when you take the person to the side and lead them to the door. If it's a more tight knit group with the stick together mentality you have sewn the seeds of division and the reasonability factor may work for you. Have seen this backfire though where the group became more antagonistic towards me. That's where you need teamwork. If you are the focus of someones anger/disorder then step back and let the other guys talk them out. If they fail you can always get a good line in attack ; ) Against a known face, it was a tactic to have a quiet word - telling them they have to go - but let them finish their drink. They like the fact that they are leaving by their own accord but accept that you have given them respect - works well if there are females in their company. People don't realise they have been thrown out. 3) If you are dealing with gang members, at least make them feel like you respect them. The words "respect" and "disrespect" are big to these types. Don't show disrespect towards them if you can avoid it. Sometimes prefacing your approach with "i don't mean any disrespect" can help you to keep the peace. Pat D: depending on your environment try and become known. I always would name drop an acquaintance that was associated with the gang. A bit difficult in a big city. It important while doing the 'respect' bit to enforce the notion that you have no choice, they have to return the respect as you will not be able to back down. On several occasions I was employed to go into bars with a problem and sort them out. On several occasions it was easy to identify who was the problem and by meeting before hand make it clear that the group is not being singled out and that I would be fair, but if anyone crossed the line they would be banned but not a group ban. This divided the group up and because I had shown 'bottle' and was 'straight up' I was given respect back from the top boys. The hangers on don't always play that game but you have the confidence of knowing that you arent going to get the whole show at the front door one night. 4) Be aware of empty beer bottles at the bar (good weapons). If the customer has one in his hand, rub your chin (or something like that)while you talk so you have a hand up to cover yourself. Pat D: And tables full of empty glasses. Get the staff to clear the table. Many doorman think its beneath them to pick up some glasses but I always saw it as self interest. Its an opportunity to let the table know you are there, smile and engage in a joke and are clearing the table for their benefit. Some people grew little goatee beards or moustaches to play with while talking to people. Seems innocent enough - and more pleasant than picking the nose - but the hands are up ready to defend or attack. I like the thai kick as well as its ready to strike while looking 'normal'. Sometimes I would even light a cigarette when dealing with a large group, ready to be used as a weapon if I was on my own. The hands up is an art but do have one leg fwd as well so you are becoming side on. If you cant then you need to subtly move while in conversation making yourself harder to set up a shot on. If people are close in, talk to their shoes to avoid the headbutt. 4) This one is HUGE. Try to be friendly towards customers (particularly if they are gigantic) when they come in. If they feel that you are a cool person, they might a) have your back if things get ugly or b) be less likely to cause trouble if they like you. Prevention is key. Pat D: this is the most important one of them all! Smile, talk, be accessible. People are out to enjoy themselves. 5) Giving the impression of authority is important for sure, but try to avoid too much of the confrontational crossed-arm posture if you can. This invites people to test you. Pat D: don't have too many guys hanging around the front door. Women doorstaff have an important role and, while many guys don't think they are up for it, they play an important role in managing the environment. A horde of stewards on a front door intimidates people. I get irked with steroid freaks waddling around when im out and im understanding of doorstaff! Rotate the staff around so no one is bored. Keep in eye contact as much as possible. 7)Drunks like to shake hands...a lot. If this happens, be prepared to pull on the hand of the arm you are shaking if he tries to punch you with the other hand. If you pull that hands shoulder towards you, the other hand won't be able to reach you. Pat D: if you have refused them I wouldn't shake hand but used a friendly grab to the shoulder. Could go on and on.......and on, but hey! That's what marc is for! ; ) --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Jamie Hutchins To: "'eskrima@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 10:38:33 +0100 Subject: [Eskrima] Sayoc transition drills Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Jeff (and other ED members), I have to admit my complete ignorance of Sayoc Kali and its theories as I don't know of anyone teaching it in the UK. However I was very interested in the video clips that you directed us to. So I was wondering if you (or someone else here) could talk us through them a little? What are the aims of these particular drills? Where do they fit into the Sayoc system (i.e. are they advanced coordination drills or something)? As they are called 'transition drills' is the point that you are deflecting the oncoming attack into a position that is less dangerous to you and then just flow into another attack/defence scenario? I look forward to hearing from you and hope my questions make sense. Thanks. Jamie -----Original Message----- From: GuroJeff@aol.com [mailto:GuroJeff@aol.com] Sent: 09 May 2002 03:09 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Sayoc Kali videoclips wow... my buddy, Guro Nick Sacoulas, just put up some videoclips of a Sayoc Kali demo done a little while back... he looks great!! those of you interested in seeing a preview of Sayoc Kali in action, go and check out his website... you do us proud, Nick! http://www.progressivemartialarts.com respects, Jeff http://www.tribalbladearts.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 08:03:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Dinnelle Wright To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Cc: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Modern Arnis Summit Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Modern Arnis Summit East - meets - West Portland Oregon June 15, 2002 Senior Master Dan Anderson and Datu Tim Hartman team up to teach Remy Presas’ stick and knife fighting techniques. For information and registration go to: http://www.modernarnissummit .com Yahoo! Shopping - Mother's Day is May 12th! http://shopping.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 11:08:01 -0400 From: ABurrese@aol.com To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Marc MacYoung Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Steve, Good post regarding doormen. It's amazing how being nice can do wonders for you. People skills can take you a lot farther than fighting skills in many situations. I worked with Marc MacYoung in LA for a bit when I was working on my first book, and while we trained in the day for physical stuff, and at times it went that way, more often it was talking that kept the peace and controlled things. One tip I learned from Marc and used it well when we were taking dancers to house parties, etc., was to ask the owner of the house (usually the guy paying) to help you keep the girls safe so everyone has a fun time. You want to be with them, not against them. At times we would work parties alone that we really should have had a couple people working. Acting bad isn't going to help you with 40-50 guys. You make friends in the crowd and have them control the guys getting out of hand. Works well. Yours in Training, Alain Burrese www.burrese.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 16:41:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Jesse Manibusan To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: tips for doormen Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Anyway. Here are a few tips for doormen: > > 1) If you have to eject someone, take him aside to do it > so as not to humiliate him in front of his friends. > 2) Sometimes it is best to ask a more sober friend of the > offending customer to "take care of your buddy" or "bring > him back on another night". Sometimes letting him, or his > friends know that he is not "86d" for good can keep > things from getting crazy. > 3) If you are dealing with gang members, at least make > them feel like you respect them. The words "respect" and > "disrespect" are big to these types. Don't show > disrespect towards them if you can avoid it. Sometimes > prefacing your approach with "i don't mean any > disrespect" can help you to keep the peace. > 4) Be aware of empty beer bottles at the bar (good > weapons). > If the customer has one in his hand, rub your chin (or > something like that)while you talk so you have a hand up > to cover yourself. An alternate to this is to put both your hands up, palms outwards towards the chest of the individual in a sort of fake "Hey man, I don't want trouble" gesture. This way, both your hands are up in an even more ready position. Automatically putting one foot forward instead of squaring yourself to your potential adversary might be a good idea. I think I heard this suggestion on the digest a few years back. For me, the above gesture is a very natural alert posture. Yahoo! Shopping - Mother's Day is May 12th! http://shopping.yahoo.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest