Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 12:03:26 -0700 (PDT) From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #168 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sender: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Unsubscribe: Status: OR Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<----------- The Inayan/Eskrima/Kali/FMA mailing list ----------->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://InayanEskrima.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Guns in Europe (Jamie Hutchins) 2. Re: Guns in Europe (Ray Terry) 3. May 25-26 HKD seminar (Ray Terry) 4. One up for the underdog (Ray Terry) 5. [Silat_International] Ring of Fire 2000, Las Vegas Nevada (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Jamie Hutchins To: "'eskrima@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 11:41:32 +0100 Subject: [Eskrima] Guns in Europe Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Here, here Patrick. I utterly agree. The article was inflammatory, ill-informed and utterly biased. The fact that a black market in banned weapons exists in the UK and other parts of Europe is indicative of the motivation of the individuals wishing to use them in criminal activity rather than frustrated hobbyists going to any lengths to own such weapons (or indeed scared home-owners wanting to protect themselves). I fail to see how the introduction of handguns (and indeed shotguns, rifles or assault weapons) into the general populous will aid us in reducing the amount of gun related crime. Or are we supposed to assume that the less intelligent criminal will register his weapon thus aiding the police when trying to track him down? The recent tragedy in Germany in which an ex-student of a school later returned and gunned down students, teachers and police officers is still thankfully an isolated incident in Europe. Again it speaks more of the frustration/motivation of the particular individual than of our society's choice to limit access to such weapons. Various similar incidents (Dunblane for instance) are part of the reasons that laws restricting weapon ownership were stepped up in the UK in the first place. The aim of course being to stop situations in which a disturbed individual is able to delve into his personal arsenal of weapons because life happens to have dealt him a few bum cards and he wants to make other people hurt as much as he. Of course it hasn't stopped this happening but it certainly has meant that guns are harder to source... enter the black marketeers. And this is of course where the Police are targeting further resources. Gun crime is at an all-time high in the UK and especially concentrated in metropolitan areas such as London and Manchester. Gun use is not exclusively the domain of murderers - I believe recent stats showed that less than 5% of murders in the UK are committed with guns (although it does of course differ depending on who creates the stats). Recent years have shown an increase in the use of guns for crimes such as mugging and burglary too. Are we to believe that an armed home-owner or person on the street is a deterrent to such actions. Come on, please, are you seriously telling me you don't still have such crimes in the US? Who knows what the answer is? Certainly comparisons between the European and American situations are hard to make since the US never had such restricted access and Europeans never had a "right" to carry/own such weapons for self-defence. I personally believe it will be a sad day when our Police Officers wear firearms as par for the course (and they are beginning to in certain areas). It would be worse if every Joe Schmo was also entitled to do so. I fear the author of the Wall Street Journal article is interpreting recent media coverage to write a piece reflecting his own political agenda (as I guess am I with the above). The difference of course being that I do not try to publish my opinion or influence public opinion. I would also suggest that a professional journalist might also like to check his statistics and state their source. On a separate note the ED is a great source of information for anyone interested in the FMAs and indeed other martial arts. I have received no end of assistance from digest members and there is a real sense that people are willing to share their collective experience. However I fail to see what relevance all the recent gun-related material has to Escrima or the FMAs? In the past people has been censored for expressing opinions not within the remit of this digest, why not now? With respects, Jamie -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Davies [mailto:Patrick.Davies@Halliburton.com] Sent: 13 May 2002 15:53 To: 'eskrima@martialartsresource.net' Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Guns in Europe: WSJ Not balanced enough an article to allow to go unpassed. >The problem with such laws is that they take away guns from law-abiding citizens, while would-be criminals ignore them, leaving potential victims defenseless. >The U.S. has shown that making guns more available is actually a better formula for law and order. I don't quite see the logic of this. Most of the gun crime is actually inbred. By that I mean the guns are used more on the other gangs with guns. Bar the schizo who walks into a school having watched too many hollywood movies, most of the UK gun crime is incestuous. While there are one or two discrepancies the fear of handguns from the general public is from the police accidentally shooting them. Recent reports in the press targeted fake guns and cigarette lighters as the most dangerous. We accept Marc McYoung and co's analogies of people who want to take you out sneaking up behind you and getting you at the weakest moment, yet this article seems to assume that this wont happen just because you can apply for a licence. I don't understand the logic. >Another inconvenient fact is frequently ignored by gun control advocates: >Many countries with high homicide rates have gun bans. If X wants to kill Y and knows that Y has a gun then X will use a gun. The reason for homicide amounts are separate and it would be naiive to think that guns would be the answer to that. While the UK and US are different cultures there are also different reasons that cannot be pigeon holed to satisfy self interest. I live in an area where there is very little gun crime, no kids accidentally shooting themselves. To say that it a result of gun banning would be as naiive as the article posted. Does mean though that I am more likely to personally step forward when someone needs assistance with the confidence that im not going to get shot. You want to reduce homicide then look at how we as a society live. We worship the wrong role models. The guns not the blame, it's the IQ of the people using it and until the balance is there in terms of all the input that people see about guns it will never be achievable. You keep your guns if that's what you want. Im happy here without the culture under the current circumstances. Pat Davies --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Guns in Europe To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 7:02:35 PDT Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > I fear the author of the Wall Street Journal article is interpreting recent > media coverage to write a piece reflecting his own political agenda Actually it was just another unbasied article from a researcher proving yet again that gun control does not and never has controled violent crime. IMHO, If one wants to live in a counrty without certain freedoms (or be a subject instead of a citizen), fine. But don't think gun control like that in many European countries reduces crime or violence, never has and never will. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray Terry To: policedo@martialartsresource.net, eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 9:00:10 PDT Subject: [Eskrima] May 25-26 HKD seminar Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hapkido Seminar May 25 & 26 South Windsor, CT Grandmaster Ji, Han Jae, 10th Dan Seminar Details: Two days of intense training with the Founder of Sin Moo Hapkido, Doju-Nim Ji,Han Jae. Topics being covered will be joint locks, kicking, and much more. (Space is limited) Dates: Saturday, May 25 and Sunday, May 26, 2002 Times: 10:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. each day with one hour for lunch Fee: SAVE $50 with Early Registration before May 17, 2002 is $200 for both days Late Registration after May 17, 2002 is $225 for both days One Day Registration is $125 per day any time that you register Cash or Checks only-Register online at www.hapkidojang.com Make checks payable to Michael McCarty and mail registration and payment to: Master Michael McCarty 7 Revere Drive, Unit One Bloomfield, CT 06002 Location: Hapkido Chun Do Kwan at the South Windsor Community Center 150 Nevers Road, South Windsor, CT 06074 Host: Master Michael McCarty, 5th Dan in Hapkido Contact Info: Contact Master McCarty at 860.242.1109 or 860.796.0811. You may also email Master McCarty at hapkidojang@hotmail.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net, eskrima@martialartsresource.net, policedo@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 12:38:24 PDT Subject: [Eskrima] One up for the underdog Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Forwarded message: Burglar Beaten by Karate Expert Tuesday, May 14, 2002 JOHANNESBURG (Reuters) - A burglar who tried to strangle a South African woman ended up in hospital with a fractured skull when the 45-year-old karate expert fought back, a local newspaper reported on Tuesday. The Star said Marietjie Fourie, who will compete in the Shotokan Karate World Championships in 2003, let fly a flurry of blows when her attacker grabbed her at her home in the port city of Durban. The man struck back, but Fourie grabbed wooden fighting sticks joined by a chain and lit into him, putting him in hospital with a smashed skull and facial bones. Fourie was quoted by the newspaper as saying it was the third time she had physically repelled intruders or attackers. "Every time I have caught someone trying to break into my house or attack me, I have beaten them off, incapacitating them or forcing them to flee," she said. South Africa has one of the world's highest rates of violent crime. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net, policedo@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 12:40:28 PDT Subject: [Eskrima] [Silat_International] Ring of Fire 2000, Las Vegas Nevada Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Forwarded message: Ring of Fire 2002, Las Vegas Nevada At the Palace Station Casino and Hotel June Saturday 29 and Sunday 30 June 1 registration dead line for the cost reduction to attent. Please register to avoid the additional $50 dollar cost No exception Less then two weeks away from todays date Call to register with your credit card (562) 920-0472 or Fax (562) 920-1827 There will be a Friday night Class 2 hour class 7pm to 9pm with Pak Vic The teachings of Pentjak Poekoelan Sangat Serak (tm) Because of the amount of material A fast pace class, all technical items will only be shown twice Seperate cost from the Seminar $45. Please register early for this one, only limited participation accepted. This for the Ring of Fire Participants only, no exception Must show your ROF Registration to participate the Friday Night Seminar Class. Before or on June 1, 2002 - Two day seminar, including the Saturday night dinner Banquet and festivities $225. After June 1, 2002 $275 Be part of ROF 2002 and learn from: Dan Inosanto, Guro/Guru "Pak" Vic de Thouars, Maha Guru Bob Vanatta, Maha Guru Muda Dr. Andre KnustChraigen, Guru Stevan Plinck, Guru New products Samboet Book by Pak Vic Buwang Book By Pak Vic Knives by Pak Vic Double and Single Karambit by Pak Vic New Tapes Edges of Serak - Pak Vic The Blazing Hands of Bledek - Guru Bob One arm by PG Mike Roberto The explosive blade by Pembantu John McCurry Guru and Guru Muda and Pembantu Guru earned Certificates will be awarded at the Ring of Fire. It is Sugested that all of the memebrs of the VDT Academy attent this event to show support to the newly Earned ranking in Pentjak Silat Serak (tm) Practitioners. It will happen once Many of Demos after the saturday night Dinner Pak Vic --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest