Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 05:18:04 -0700 (PDT) From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #177 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sender: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Unsubscribe: Status: O Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<-------- The Inayan/Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list -------->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://InayanEskrima.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: reality-based systems- martial arts/ (Mike Casto) 2. Re: What is a Martial Art ? (Mike Casto) 3. Re: What is a Martial Art ? (Ray Terry) 4. TCC (kalkiusa@netscape.net) 5. Re: What is a martial art? (Eagle556@aol.com) 6. New Pekiti-Tirsia Mpegs (bill m) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 18:45:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Casto Subject: Re: [Eskrima] reality-based systems- martial arts/ To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > This question falls into the category of "if it is > new, it must not be as > good as the old ones". I don't believe that. I > firmly believe that hybrid > systems are just the next generation of martial > arts, and 100 years from now > people will be comparing what they have then with > our "new" systems, like > JKD, Dog Brothers or any other, and asking the same > questions Yup. All martial arts systems were new at some point and many of them, at their inception, were "hybrid" arts. Mike ===== Mike Casto Asian Fighting Arts - Texas Representative Nacogdoches, Texas --------------------------------- Asian Fighting Arts - http://www.asianfightingarts.com Lansdale's Self-Defense - http://www.joerlansdale.com/shenchuan Martial Arts Seminar Listings - http://www.guild-hall.com/seminars Martial Arts Schools Database - http://www.guild-hall.com/schools LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 19:14:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Casto Subject: Re: [Eskrima] What is a Martial Art ? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Well this is > why Im afraid anymore the > whole profile of the future of martial arts is > falling apart due to the > mcdojo's and the whole sport aspect of martial arts. > Can anyone else > elaborate or give an opinion here? The McDojo is all about mass marketing ... and will, therefore, likely continue to attract the masses. I don't think there's anything to be done about that. I think that most people who get involved in MA will tend to migrate to their comfort zone when they're ready. If they're comfort zone is McDojo then that's where they'll end up, regardless of where they start. And if they're comfort zone is something more realistic then, even if they start in a McDojo, they'll eventually get tired of it and seek something else. There are exceptions, of course, but I think that, overall, people will tend to end up where they want/need/deserve to be in their training. I think all we, as instructors, can do is to provide them with a realistic alternative that they *can* migrate to if that's their bent. Mike ===== Mike Casto Asian Fighting Arts - Texas Representative Nacogdoches, Texas --------------------------------- Asian Fighting Arts - http://www.asianfightingarts.com Lansdale's Self-Defense - http://www.joerlansdale.com/shenchuan Martial Arts Seminar Listings - http://www.guild-hall.com/seminars Martial Arts Schools Database - http://www.guild-hall.com/schools LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] What is a Martial Art ? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 10:49:59 PDT Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > I know many people join martial arts for several different reasons, rather > it be for self knowledge, for healing, for a hobby, The above is worth repeating... We often fall into the trap of thinking that many/most/all of those taking martial arts are in it for the same reason that we are (whatever that is). There are a great many reasons why people study martial arts. According to some studies most are not even there to learn to fight. Yes, perhaps hard to believe, but that fact might help some to get 'out of the box' when it comes to meeting the needs of each student(assuming that is your goal as a teacher). Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 15:40:36 -0400 From: kalkiusa@netscape.net To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] TCC Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Tai Chi Chuan (Fa) is a fighting "style" (Chuan Fa = Kempo = Fist Method, hence "Boxing" [Fighting Method]). Tai Chi systems were always first and foremost fighting styles. Later emphases are secondary. TCC is one of the fighting styles incorporated into Tian Shan kung fu, along with N. and S. Shaolin, Ba Ji Chuan (Fa), Xing-I Chuan (Fa), Mi-Zong Chuan, Ba Gua, etc. When people would come to our school (1970s) inquiring about TCC, my instructor would show them fighting applications, sometimes to the tune of "Oh no, I'm not interested in fighting!!!" TCC's early emphasis is on "sung", relaxation, not meditation (sheesh!!!). My teacher never said -any-thing about meditation in TCC, only that it existed within the teachings of Tian Shan. It was separate, just like in Xing-I and Ba Gua. Relaxation in movement allows us to refine kinesthetic sense ... and relaxation in training application (e.g., Tui Shou [Push Hands, like Chi Sao, Sticky Hands, Hubud, etc.]) helps us to pay attention to what's going on from the training partner or opponent's side and retrain our reflexive actions. TCC got "hijacked" by the New Age, such that a local dance teacher is held up as THE guru of TCC even tho she knows nothing about what the movements mean, no Tui Shou, no Chi Kung, ai-ya!!! The masters of Shuai Chiao (e.g., the late Chang, Deng-Sheng) practice(d) TCC and can show throws for/from each step. Such instructors include those brought over from Taiwan to teach at the Sionics counterterrorist training center. TCC is the only fighting sequence that they practice. Sitting at a dinner table with them, listening to what they had to say re: TCC and Shuai Chiao, you'd hear nothing about meditative anything ... physics maybe yes :-) Tui Shou (Push Hands) leads to striking, elbowing, locking, and throwing (both of which may include breaking or knockouts). So much for the dance teacher's ad that TCC is "an ancient method of movement meditation designed to perfectly align the body." Say wha'??? I come along teaching my humble Combat Kung Fu and offer a little TCC on the side as "one of China's oldest fighting styles" and people say "That isn't Tai Chi!!!" Sheesh, talk about revisionism! Example: Snake Creeps Down = Fireman's Throw. Rollback = Chin Na takedown (make'em eat dirt) Step Back to Repulse (like?) Monkey = elbow break I would liken TCC practice to what little I know about Carrenza (spelling?). I think that some of it used to be called "Shadow Boxing." Perhaps there's a hint in there, e.g., compare shadowboxing or carrenza as we might know it to actual fighting. Mitakuye Oyasin. Be well, Mik __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Eagle556@aol.com Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 16:13:42 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: What is a martial art? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net <<>> This is a very good question. It's a question that at least in my case is pondered on a continual basis. The question goes deeper than in just defining the system in question. It goes into other areas such as, "Is the current training methodology producing the required results? Am I on the right path for my own development? Am I producing students that can effectively defend themselves? Is the training producing teachers as opposed to just practitioners?" And other questions that I continually ask myself. <<>> I think that most martial arts systems started out thinking that they were/are a reality based martial art. I do believe however that throughout history warriors have gone into combat armed if at all possible with weapons. Those that went into combat during any period of conflict on this planet with only an empty hand system were at a distinct disadvantage. This has continued up until the present. While on active duty I was often asked by my civilian friends what knife did I carry in the field and on operations. I had to tell them that although I carried a Randall, the most used knife that I saw being used was either the swiss army knife or a leatherman tool. I am always amused when I read in various magazines about the latest so-called "combat proven knife." Truth be told if it was a choice between the latest, "combat proven knife," or a magazine pouch with 90 more rounds for my M4 or M16 then the choice is obvious. Individuals go into hostile environments with as much firepower as possible. Whether that means that I carry a sword, shield and dagger or with my firearm and as much ammo as I can carry it's the same philosophy. Only those with a deathwish go into a deadly situation unarmed. <<>> Why wouldn't they be considered a martial art? "Martial Art" is such a broad based term. For a long time in this country the only activities that were considered martial arts in certain circles were those that came from Asia. I personally have met a number of wrestlers and boxers that I felt were more than capable of taking care of themselves. Are they any less a martial artist than say the 12 year old 2nd degree black belt who received all of their training in a McDojo? Or those that practice the martial arts as more of a martial sport than for self defense? Because in the end it basically boils down to who can inflict the most injury, hopefully first, in the shortest amount of time whether it be with empty hands, blades, or firearms. Attitude and determination as opposed to technique is what wins most fights. Technique, style, or how the system was used in the past plays a very minimal role in the outcome of the fight. Aggression and the willingness to use that aggression plays the pivotal part. But getting back to the question of what is a martial art, I have always believed that firearms are martial arts. Woe to the soldier or warrior who does not use what is available. Firearms, at least here in America, are readily available and should be studied just as a martial artist studies other aspects of martial arts. It's sort of funny to listen to Filipino Martial Artists carry on as to how their training and their history is replete with examples of individuals adapting to the environment and using whatever was available. Then when you bring up firearms you get this look of disdainment followed with a verbal response that usually goes something like this, "Well firearms aren't a real martial art and only cowards or those with no honor use firearms. It's not a fair fight if you use a firearm." I learned at an early age that there is no such thing as a fair fight. Those in the FMAs that support gun control are deluding themselves as to the real motives of the antigun crowd. The antigun crowd does not believe in the right of self defense. They often make statements to that effect. If those of you that support gun control and the ultimate abolishment of civilian ownership of firearms believe that these same folks are going to look kindly upon those of us that practice the FMAs, what with it's sticks, knives and other assorted weapons, then I feel sorry for you. Take care, Rob. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "bill m" To: Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 23:00:59 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] New Pekiti-Tirsia Mpegs Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Many thanks to the several list members who emailed me with help on solving my mpeg problems. I think I have the problem figured out now and fixed. I have two new mpegs on the PTI site's mpeg page. http://pekiti-tirsia.com/MPEG%20CLIPS.htm Clip 5 shows Tuhon Gaje and myself at a seminar in Germany in 1996. It should run for 1 minute and 55 seconds. Clip 6 shows me doing an espada y daga demo in 1988 (you can tell its a long time ago by my hairline :-). It should run for 38 seconds. Please let me know if these clips run on your system for the times I have given, how the clarity is and if anyone's ISP has a problem with downloading the large file on clip 5. Thanks, Tuhon Bill McGrath --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest