Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 02:15:23 -0700 (PDT) From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #179 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sender: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Unsubscribe: Status: OR Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<-------- The Inayan/Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list -------->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://InayanEskrima.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. What is a martial art? by Eagle556 (Jay de Leon) 2. RE: what's a martial art (Todd Ellner) 3. Lapu-Lapu (Tom Meadows) 4. Lapu-lapu (GatPuno@aol.com) 5. Lapulapu (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Jay de Leon" To: Cc: Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 06:42:34 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] What is a martial art? by Eagle556 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net A poster wrote "It's sort of funny to listen to Filipino Martial Artists carry on as to how their training and their history is replete with examples of individuals adapting to the environment and using whatever was available. Then when you bring up firearms you get this look of disdainment..." I do not know when and where these "Filipino Martial Artists" uttered their disdain for firearms, but I can assure you they could not have been Filipinos in the Philippines, especially pre-martial law. First of all, many of my martial arts instructors were themselves either in the military or law enforcement (like judo master Florendo Arambulo, who was a uniformed beat cop in Quezon City), or they trained law enforcement officers, or carried firearms themselves. You can count other notables like GM Gaje, Sayoc and other WWII veterans/FMA instructors who were firearms experts themselves. Secondly, especially if you lived in a big city like Manila, Cebu and Cotabato, you were only too aware of gun-toting, trigger-happy "Djangos" (gunslinger, from a Western movie character) roaming around. Every nightclub had a sign posted "Please deposit your firearm at the door." which of course every self-respecting gunslinger ignored. Philippine lore is full of celebrities killed or wounded in nighclub gunfights--Jess Lapid, Alberto Alonzo, Robin Padilla, etc. Even friends and classmates packed heat for special occasions like parties, fraternity rumbles and I remember friends who drove cars arming themselves after a classmate and fellow judo student was shot dead by carnappers (this is the Filipino term) as he foolishly resisted. The point was, martial artist or not, you had to be either clueless or utterly fearless (?) to ignore the proliferation of firearms, and discount or disdain the use of same for your own protection. We are, however, in complete agreement as to the principle of getting there the fastest with the mostest. Jay de Leon --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Todd Ellner" To: Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 13:48:04 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] RE: what's a martial art Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Marc writes: >I'll tell you what, go out and get Bob Orlando's Martial Arts America. Second that motion. It's a very good book which a lot of thought has gone into. One of the most refreshing things is Bob's ability to say "I don't know." It's a rare degree of humility in anyone. Especially a martial artist. >I really like his "theory" on the evolution/de-evolution of martial arts. >And how the cycle starts over again. What you see as a decline, is pretty >much part of an ongoing cycle. No "de-" about it. Things change. Sometimes randomly. Sometimes in response to the market. Sometimes because of other conditions. It's only a decline if you can't find what meets your needs. >I should warn you, Bob gives the MA in America both barrels. He is logical, >methotical and backs his arguments up. You may not like what he says, in >fact, many people hate it because it pretty well sums up many of the >"problems" of commercial schools. >However, in order to argue against it you had better have something better >than "Ugh huh" "Is not!" and "we'll that's not how we do it in our school." Yep. yep. yep. One of the most interesting insights is that the "problems" are mostly problems for those of us who have our ego invested in a (possibly self-serving) vision of what the martial arts are. The "McDojos" we criticize probably have similar criticisms of us. Back when I did FMA with John Daniels he stopped sending his students to the larger local tournaments. It saved them the time and effort of driving to a place where they would be turned away because they didn't study "real" martial arts. Were they right? I guess. It was their party, so they make the guest list say whatever they wanted. This "What is a martial art?" question has been hashed over dozens of times. If you can get ahold of back issues of HOPLOS (the journal put together by Donn Draeger's ex-spook friends) they come up with several definitive answers. Most of which betray their Japanese bias. Several of which contradict each other. The early issues of JAMA had a bunch of high-sounding articles with lots of footnotes that tried to make elaborate classification systems. Most ended up as "This is a 'jutsu' style. This is a 'do' art," again betraying the cultural baggage the authors had picked up. I'm still toying with the idea of writing an article called "Screw 'Em All" which will say "State your assumptions up front. Make up whatever definitions you want as long as it answers some useful question you're trying to solve." --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Tom Meadows" To: Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 14:16:27 -0700 Organization: Simple Solutions Subject: [Eskrima] Lapu-Lapu Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Greetings, Heather asked about Lapu Lapu and Magellan. The only documentation of the actual fight was done by Pigafetti and his account is printed in many history books. There is no mention of exactly how or who killed Magellen, just that he died in the battle. There does currently exist a Lapu-Lapu style, but any relationship to Lapu Lapu's system can only come from oral legend since the Spaniards destroyed any written records of his style that existed, if they existed at all. Tom Meadows --__--__-- Message: 4 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 23:10:13 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Lapu-lapu Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net This to give you an idea about "the battle of Mactan". the History is not really tell us much about Lapu-lapu. All I know is Magellan was killed in battle of Mactan against Filipino Native tribes headed by "Raha Lapu-lapu". No one really can confirm that "Lapu-lapu" himself killed Ferdinand Magellan, because according from " Pigafeta's account, that Magelan were left behind by his soldier lying on the beach with arrow on his chest, he was killed by an arrow not Kris or bolo, a lot of historian, failed to clarifies what real happen out there. But Raha Lapu-lapu get the credit, because he is the head of that tribes. End of History.. Sanay makatulong/Hope its help, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Laguna Arnis Federation International > > I'm trying to find information on what Chief Lapu-Lapu of Mactan did for > > largo-mano. I know that he killed Magellan in battle, but I'm having a > > hard time finding much else. Any suggestions on where to look? --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 21:13:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Eskrima] Lapulapu Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Pigafetta's account is given in Quirino's Filipinos at War: The Fight for Freedom from Mactan to EDSA. p.17. In short, Magellan was first shot thru the right leg with a poison arrow. The legs were the only parts of the Spanish that were bare. As Magellan, Pigafetta and a half dozen others retired thru the knee high water they were followed closely by Lapulapu and some of his warriors. By now Magellan was also wounded in the right arm. He attempted to draw his sword, but was unable to because of the wounded arm. At this point Lapulapu rushed forward and hit Magellan in the leg with his Kampilan. Magellan fell face downward. As Magellan attempted to raise his head out of the water with his left arm Lapulapu thrusted his Kampilan at Magellan's unprotected neck. As Magellan fell dead his men fled toward the longboats and escaped. Ray Terry --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest