Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 02:09:01 -0700 (PDT) From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #189 - 4 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sender: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Today's Topics: 1. Teaching for money (Stickfighter27@cs.com) 2. E.Digest (Tom Meadows) 3. Teaching for money (Garry Bowlds) 4. Re: Story of GM Giron (Jesse Manibusan) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Stickfighter27@cs.com Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 11:27:21 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Teaching for money Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Well my thoughts for teaching for money is this: As im not totally pro or con for it. I just think some need to realize what thier in the martial arts for. When we say or you say that I could be doing something else w/ my time, yes this is true. However, would you be doing something else or just sitting on the couch watching tv drinking beer? Some choose to teach for something to do, and gain as much pleasure from teaching it because of the love of the art, for to them sometimes its the only workout, or training they get so for them to teach, money isnt the object at all. To me those are found to be the most intriguing and interesting teachers out there they find a bond, they pick and choose thier students wisely, and they are as sufficient w/ thier skill as any martial artist I know or have known that charge. And the majority of these teachers teach at PARKS, Garages, Backyards etc. Opening a Public School: Now for this type of instructor still the love of teaching is there or he wouldnt open a school, and however I feel he would still teach certain individuals for mere nothing. he has to charge an overhead price for the rent, and utilities and the business of the school, weather he sells merchandise, or host events. This type of teacher yes deserves some sort of compensation for his time and I still believe it should be for the school itself rather then the instructors benifit mainly because it was his decision to open the school to share the system or martial arts w/ a community and he isnt going to be as picky as to who he teaches. Now I understand the American Way the economy etc. Yes sure why not make a living at something I enjoy to do. Well this isnt the case in most of america. its not that easy to make a living off of teaching martial arts, unless you travel the globe and do seminars year round and at that time I think it would become more a carreer and the fun would eventually die down from the thrill. YEah the money is excellent but eventually your gonna want to rest. But for the individual runing a small business school your not gonna make millions or even hundreds of thousands from teaching, your money for living expensive comes from a 2nd job. Its just that simple. And Im thinking thats the way it should be. If you are making a living from a small business like that well I think your taking advantage of people, because then you get into selling out the martial art for $ like ranking black belts in 2 yrs or under, having a promotion and charging $300 and $400 for each black belt every 6months, having 13 and 14 yr old 3rd dan black belts. (yes people I have seen this its not that far fetched) This sickens me to know end. Compensating TIME and Energy: I see nothing wrong w/ asking a mere small amount of money for your time spent in a nice afternoon of training but that is to be used at discretion, whats fair $15 $20 per session in some cases depending on your skill or background yes. In other cases if your just starting teaching and getting your skill noticed and want to teach for the experience, and the well being of the sharing of the art, and if you decide I think a mere small amount should be something more like $8 or $10 a mere session. That is reasonable and even then some want to learn so whole heartedly and cant afford this amount due to they have families, mortgages, loans, etc. think of those individuals taking time from thier families to go learn, we take that for example as well. I know when I train sometimes I just want to set at home w/ my family but I know I value learning just as well my wife see's my training as a waste of time, and money but she accepts it cause i love it, but dont understand it. So sometimes teachers need to think of this as well. So its basically I think all what were into the martial arts for. Is it for the all american dream of ripping someone off today and tomarrow? For some its a source of putting food on the table, for others its for the pure LOVE of the martial arts. I personally beleive the day the learning or sharing the martial arts becomes a JOB, or like a job for me, is the day I stop training or learning or even sharing it w/ a friend. To me getting together w/ freinds and sharing or learning or whatever is the greatest thing on earth. I constantly want to go and train, learn, but I cant afford the price of some big school I have bills and barely make enough money from my job to support my family so to me martial arts is a way out a stress releif from every day life, and I dont want to have to spend $80 a month or $40 per hour for a lesson when that money can go to my family for clothes, food, or thier own excitement. I feel when I take our money to spend on something I want to do that isn't fair to them because Im the only one gaining or enjoying, benifiting from it. So sometimes to me I just call friends and we train, no money, just good ol blood, and Sweat thats the most exhilerating payment of all in my eyes. Just my 0.02 worth. Cory --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Tom Meadows" To: , "Mark F. Ward" Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 10:17:30 -0700 Organization: Simple Solutions Subject: [Eskrima] E.Digest Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Greetings, Regarding the comment " "You have to charge them something or they won't take it seriously." Many years ago I had to seriously ask myself " If you charge them just the beer you drink while you're training, will they take YOU seriously as an instructor? " I fortunately had this answered many years ago by a student who asked " Tom, how come you can teach and spar with us and not spill your beer?. Ah grasshopper, when you can take the glass from my hand.... Tom Meadows --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Garry Bowlds To: "'eskrima@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 14:30:11 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Teaching for money Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I've always had trouble charging to teach because I basically got all of my training for free. I began my martial arts studies with 3 yrs of Shotokan Karate at a local junior college in the early 70s. Being the martial arts fanatic/starving student that I was at the time, my teacher agreed to let me learn for free. Sort of. As in the old days, I was required to come in early, roll up the mats from the judo class before us, sweep the floors, then unroll the mats once again when class was over. When I began studying Serrada Escrima from Suro Mike Inay in the mid 70s after he closed the commercial scholl and began teaching at his house, I was still in the same financial situation, so once again, I was required to come early and sweep off the porch in his back yard where we trained twice a week. In the late 70s, I moved to Fort Wayne, Indiana were I met and trained Alan McLuckie, Rob McDonald, and Benjie Berrie for about 18 months. Although we worked out several days each week, I never charged them for any of the classes because they were as dedicated as I was, and I needed someone to practice my own developing concepts against. In the 80s, after I moved back to California, I began teaching several of my roommates. I wouldn't teach one of them because he enjoyed starting fights. I kept this up for several years until a back injury forced me into early retirement. Today I am ready to start teaching again, mainly because I am disappointed in the current crop of esrimadors, but because I didn't pay for any of my early training, the question of charging students has always been difficult. I believe, as it was for me, that it should be a question of the students ability to pay, and their sincerity in studying the arts. Guro Garry Bowlds --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 17:37:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Jesse Manibusan To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Story of GM Giron Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > From: "Q" > To: > Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 20:31:21 -0700 > Subject: [Eskrima] Best Memories of GM Giron > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > I have had significant time training under GM Giron over > a decade while > training under Guro Inosanto...just training around. But > one of my best > memories of GM Giron was later in his life about 80 y/o > or there abouts. We > were at GM Giron's class about 5 years ago mostly taken > over by Guro Somera > that day. The class was typical Largo review. GM Giron > was ill but present. > Guro Somera said nothing. My Friend a certificated > instructor in Largo and > 70's JKD certifed student said nothing. I of course > forgot most of my Largo > and "thought" nothing. At least an hour went by and GM > Giron could not stand > it anymore especially since I was training right in front > of him. GM Giron > rose to his feet and came over to me with a pained > expression on his face > either from his illness of my Largo Mano. He grabbed my > stick hand by the > wrist and pushed the punyo up into my palm so that there > was no punyo. His > only acented words were, "This is L-A-R-G-O M-A-N-O. > There is no punyo. > This is not Doce Pares or something like that". I think > that is all he said > to any of us that whole day. If you like that story I > have a gem about Guro > Suwanda. What a great story. The masters are generally characterized by their infrequent talk, smooth physical ability and coodinated movement even in their old age, their emphasis on NON-fighting aspects of the art when trying to teach you how to fight, like peace, balance and perspective. You are very fortunate to have met GM Giron. He seems to have been a great human being in addition to being an outstanding martial artist. I never met GM Giron nor GM Inay but I sure wish I did. Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest