Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 22:16:45 -0700 (PDT) From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #206 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sender: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Unsubscribe: Status: OR Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<-------- The Inayan/Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list -------->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://InayanEskrima.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Villabrilel_Largusa Kali and the Pulahans of Visayas (Leo Salinel) 2. I would like to get a copy of Pangamot book by GM Cacoy (Ronald Mckinnie) 3. Abu Sayyaf (ZyXEL - Jan Pedro Tumusok) 4. Seeking a place to train (Nur0 Mancer) 5. Re: Experiment: Does size really matter? (rudolf@kimbel.net) 6. RE: Does size matter? (Todd Ellner) 7. Re: RE: Does size matter? Pak Vic? (Ray Terry) 8. F=M*a (Peter Gow) 9. Custom Knife (bill m) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 21:07:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Leo Salinel To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Villabrilel_Largusa Kali and the Pulahans of Visayas Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net GM Floro Villabrille's black costume with the indigenous or ethnic designs on them (which he passed on to GM Benny Largusa and the VLK people, and from there to Guro Dan Inosanto and to the rest of the FMA culture in the West--hence almost all of them wear black shirts and black pants for training) come from the Pulahan religious cults to which the so-called "Blind Princess" Josefina belonged. I'm from the Philippines BTW and I've studied my country's history as well as that of our FMA. Contrary to American FMA lore, Josefina was no princess--she was just the daughter of a local Pulahan chief or cult leader. The Pulahans are not a tribe....they are millenial religious cult movements that blend Catholic beliefs with pre-Spanish pagan/animistic practices and concepts. The Pulahans are called that because of their blood red outlandish costumes (Pulahan literally means "reds" in English). In the olden days when a Pulahan raid would come by, the villagers would shout, "Andiyan na ang mga Pulahan!" (The Reds are coming!). At the time GM Villabrille trained with Josefina and her Pulahan community in Gindara town, Samar island, the Pulahans were a widely distributed collection of cults all wearing the trademark red costume (GM Floro must have modified it into black instead of red) and specializing in bladed weapons. Last year, I picked up a copy of a major Manila newspaper and saw this report about Pulahans who were massacred in Bukidnon by Phil. Army soldiers sent to enforce an arrest warrant against a local Pulahan chief. The Pulahans were sporting big bladed weapons that to urbanized Filipinos like me appear to be outlandish. The Pulahans all have firearms but their favorite sidearm is always one or two blades, both a big sword and a dagger or two. The Pulahans were decimated by the Americans in the 1920s and by economic progress and popular education. They flourished however in northern Mindanao where most of them (if not all) could be found to this day. BTW, has this next question been answered already? The Doce Pares club of Laguna to which GatPuno Abon Baet refers is not related AT ALL to the Doce Pares club of Cebu under the Canetes. They just coincidentally chose the same name/term (Doce Pares being a favorite Spanish term, coming from the legend of Charlemagne's 12 pairs or doce pares of swordsmen or something like that). Remember the story about the "Doce Pares de Francia" (the 12 pairs of France)? That must have loomed large in Pinoy colonial martial culture during the Spanish times. And to lay to rest the question of FMA being arnis or kali or escrima, please trust me on this one: 1) There's no mother art called Kali. There were seminal techniques and fighting systems budding at the time the Spaniards came to the Philippines but no actual substantive independent formal system called Kali. The roots were there but not the tree called Kali, which to be blunt about it, is a mere artificial choice by more educated arnis masters who want to emphasize the pre-Spanish roots of FMA. 2) Arnis is the generic term used all throughout the Philippines to refer to FMA. Except in Cebuano areas (Cebu is to the Philippines what the contentious Quebecois are to the rest of Canada), where the FMA are called eskrima. 3) Arnis, kali and escrima are by definition synonymous. They only differ as to connotation. The world eskrima connotes stick-based Cebuano systems. The word kali connotes blade-oriented systems (altho this isn't universal either). The word arnis in the Philippines connotes both eskrima and kali, but in the popular view, it refers to what we learn in Physical Ed. classes back in high school where we wore tacky red pants and used striped rattan sticks while wearing white camisa de chino undershirts. ===== Earn $$ just by receiving and reading email! http://www.resource-a-day.net/member/index.cgi?Brandon96 Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 02:52:39 -0400 From: "Ronald Mckinnie" To: Subject: [Eskrima] I would like to get a copy of Pangamot book by GM Cacoy Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Send me some info as to how I can order a copy of this Pangamot book. Send info to my email address Thanks Ron --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "ZyXEL - Jan Pedro Tumusok" To: Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:20:45 +0200 Subject: [Eskrima] Abu Sayyaf Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net An article that might be of interest to the people on this list. By William Rees Tue Jun 11th, 2002 at 04:47:35 PM EST One year ago today, Guillermo Sobero's hands were tied behind his back. He was led away from his fellow detainees and marched deep into the Basilan jungle. That night, his head was chopped off. Sobero is just one of thousands of victims in the war between the Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG) and the Filipino government. Since 1991, the ASG has conducted kidnappings, looting, murder, and war. The United States government has tied the ASG to Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda. Earlier this year, the US increased its military presence in the Philippines to over 1000 troops specifically designated to help the war against the ASG. What is the Abu Sayyaf? Why are they fighting the Filipino government? What are their demands? The rest can be read at http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/6/11/141643/563 Best Regards Jan Pedro Tumusok --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 07:26:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Nur0 Mancer To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Seeking a place to train Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net De-lurking after quite a pause... I am about to stop being a surgical intern and will have time to train again. Unfortunately, I will be moving out to Springfield, MA. Are there schools/instructors out in Western Mass? I have looked on line, and found only one place, which does Modern Arnis along with Tai Chi/Bagua, Karate, etc. Anyone know about other stuff in that area (Hartford, CT is also pretty close by) Greg Goldmakher Defensor Method Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: rudolf@kimbel.net To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 17:26:56 +0200 Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Experiment: Does size really matter? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Ray Terry wrote: Subject: > All hits with the heavy stick yield more power. The disadvantage of the heavy > stick is that you have less speed in your attacks. >All I know is that F=MxA. I, and apparently you, assume that the heavier >stick would strike with a greater force. But without a well formed experiment >how do we move beyond assumption to fact? Well, actually there's momentum and energy. Much energy comes from much speed, much momentum comes from much mass. In my example, the ASP conveys more (destructive) energy than the punching bag, which has more momentum. People often argue energy vs. momentum, like in the 9mm vs. .45 debate or the .223 vs. .308. Ok, the .22 isn't enough, and a 10/89 pump somewhat difficult to handle, especially for follow up shots. >My assumption is based on being on the receiving end of more power strikes >than you'd care to hear about, but that is not really a proper experiment. >Anyone? Well, Fackler, Sanow, and others did lot's of experiments with guns only to let us figure out what to make of it. And to fill rec.guns every day. For a experiment that really say's something, you would need 50 men of equal constitution and a doctor to compare the results after you tried various sticks and angles. I guess nobody is going to do that. You can only look at what people actually use. There was a discussion either on this or the tactics-l on which ASP to use. Most 'civilians' preferred the 16", while at least one prison guard preferred the 21", since the 16" was too light to knock down a prisoner in rage. The 26" was too heavy for all. This also convinces me, as being a prison guard is as close you can get to a meaningful experiment like the one you'd like. So in the end, it's with sticks as with guns, take the biggest one you can handle with enough speed and precision. Rudolf. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Todd Ellner" To: Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 09:20:00 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Does size matter? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net The physics actually get pretty involved. F=ma is only part of it. a = dv/dt. Jerk = da/dt. Thump = dJerk/dt. Are you measuring total kinetic energy imparted to the target? energy/area/time? Something else? Experiments would certainly be helpful. But only if they are the right ones designed to answer the right questions. --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] RE: Does size matter? Pak Vic? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:51:37 PDT Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Pak Vic, Given chapter 8 in your excellent treatise "Serak The Tsunami" (see http://www.serak.com) you are obviously big into the study of physics in martial arts and elsewhere. What say you on the 'does size matter' question? I would think (and it feels) that, yes, it does matter. But given the probable ability to greatly accerate a lighter stick to the target, what other issues of interest are coming into play? Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Peter Gow" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 02:16:57 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] F=M*a Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net The angle of the strike would have some consideration, due to the fact that a straight downward strike is less influenced by the additional force imparted by torso and hip rotation. You may find that differnt strikes impart different Force depending on the strike and on the person.  PG ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. Click Here --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "bill m" To: Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 22:44:06 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Custom Knife Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Pekiti-Tirsia Guro Zach Whitson is also a custom knife maker. He now has one of his hunting knives on Ebay. Check it out at: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2110955341 Regards, Tuhon Bill McGrath --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! 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