Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 12:02:27 -0700 (PDT) From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #219 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sender: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Unsubscribe: Status: OR Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<-------- The Inayan/Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list -------->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://InayanEskrima.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Sayoc Seminar (sikal@yahoo.com) 2. Misc. Stuff (william schultz) 3. Speer Recalls Gold Dot Ammunition (Ray Terry) 4. Re: Misc. Stuff (Ray Terry) 5. Happy B-Day to us (Ray Terry) 6. Re: Re: Does size really matter? (Ray Terry) 7. Tapado in action (Marc Denny) 8. Hammers and Carpenters (Marc Denny) 9. Re: Warrior's Ar (Ray Terry) 10. update to Gm Cacoy Canete seminars (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: 18 Jun 2002 20:34:35 -0000 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: sikal@yahoo.com Subject: [Eskrima] Sayoc Seminar Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woo hoo!!! This past weekend I had the most memorable seminar experience of my life (and that's saying something). I arrived in Wichita Falls on Friday morning and went to Guro Harley Elmore's school there. We chatted for a bit and then he headed off to drive to Dallas (about 2.5 hours ... not counting traffic) to pick Tuhon Chris Sayoc and his son, Jimmy, up at the airport. Guro Harley asked me to teach his morning class and we did some Silat. That was all fun. Saturday, we started the seminar at 10 AM. Everyone "died" so many times that it ceased to be embarrassing. We covered quite a bit of ground doing the 3 of 9 template and knife tapping on 3 of 9. After lunch we did some interesting technical work and some other drills. Honestly, though, a lot of that is a blur in my memory. Saturday evening we went to Golden Corral for dinner then a bunch (somewhere between 10 and 15 ... not sure exactly how many) of us went back to Guro Harley's and hung out. We got to spend quite a bit of time with Tuhon Chris and Jimmy. Then the wind picked up outside and it started raining pretty hard. They announced on the radio that there was a tornado a few miles north of us. The tornado alarm went off and we all headed for a tornado shelter near Guro Harley's school. We ran to the shelter ... all of us wound up with wind-blown grit in our mouths and eyes. The shelter was built to hold about 5 people. I'm not a small guy. There was also Tuhon Chris and another guy in there who were bigger than me. But we managed to fit most of our group in that little shelter (I think a couple of people wound up going to another nearby shelter ... I'm not sure ... I was in a hole in the ground getting sardine-type cozy with a bunch of people, though). Where we were, there wasn't actually a tornado ... but there were straight winds from 80 MPH - 90 MPH. The tornado alarm went silent and things, while still windy, seemed to have died down some. We headed back into Harley's school. Later, we heard some very loud noises out back, then a loud "thud" as something slammed into the back of the school ... then another loud noise out in front of the school. We later determined that a shed (made of sheet metal) behind the school had been uprooted by the wind. It slammed into the wood privacy fence between it and the school and knocked a section of the fence askew. Then the shed slammed into the back of the school. A piece of sheet metal broke loose and flew over the school where it landed on Eric's truck out front. It scratched the paint at the back of his cab down to the metal then it tore a hole down the length of the bed cover. Also, when the shad slammed into the back of the school, about 1/4 of it folded around the side of the school building and wrapped around Guro Harley's car ... totalling the car. Sunday, we went through some more incredible knife training with Tuhon Sayoc and, after the seminar, we took a group photo by the wreckage of the shed and Harley's car. As I say, the most memorable seminar I've ever attended ... Guro Harley and Tuhon Sayoc know how to make a seminar interesting ;-) Mike --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: 20 Jun 2002 10:26:44 -0700 From: "william schultz" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Misc. Stuff Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Greetings. I am curious to know if anyone else on the digest is experiencing the same problem that I am. On a daily basis I am getting e-mails with attachments form unknown sources. They have been disguised as coming from the digest, from my old work E-address, or from my own ISP. One of the ones that I received this morning were made to look like it was being bounced back from the digest (I haven't sent anything to the digest in a while). When I check the properties and message source I can see that they have been routed through different sources and that it's not sent from who it appears to be sent from. Now, the only sources that my address is listed on the net are the E-digest, the FMA Data Base, and Tuhon McGraths training partner contact board. Tuhon McGraths site is the only one that had my work E-address listed (which I have tried to get him remove without success) which is no longer valid anyway. The point to my rambling is that it appears that someone who frequents some of the FMA sites is playing around. I am just curious to know if any of you folks are getting the same junk. BTW, I don't opening ANYTHING unless I can verify that it's coming from a valid source. William Schultz PCMA/MCAC/PTTG --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 07:15:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Eskrima] Speer Recalls Gold Dot Ammunition Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Fowarding... >Product Recall: >Speer Gold Dot Ammunition -380 Auto, 9mm, 9mm+P, and 40 S&W. >An intermittent, low frequency occurrence of primer misfires may occur under >certain circumstances in several calibers of Gold Dot ammunition. This only >applies to Gold Dot ammunition of the specified calibers produced between >09-25-01 and 03-31-02. >An unauthorized change in manufacturing process was made back in late >September, This resulted in primers being used that did not meet >specifications. Those primers are mostly used for ammo going to Government >Contract shipments. However some of the ammo does go out through >distributors to local and state contracts. >Speer Gold Dot 380 Auto, 9mm, 9mm+P, and 40 S&W ammunition produced between >09-25-01 and 03-31-02 should be returned to the factory for a no charge >replacement. Replacement ammunition will incorporate an "A" mark on the >primer cup for identification purposes. >You should discontinue use of the subject ammunition and follow the >procedure below immediately. >To return ammunition subject to this notice, please provide the information >requested below by email, toll free fax, or toll free hotline. A customer >service person will then contact you to explain how to return and replace >any ammunition affected by the recall. >Voice hotline Px 1-866-286-7436, Fax 1-866-665-2738, email >ammo@seg-outdoor.com >Letters in lot code indicate month and year of production. Recall period is >from Sept. 25th, 2001 to March 31st, 2002. Lot#'s with the sequence of >letters shown below are part of the recall. >J26Gxx to J30Gxx (September 2001) >K01Gxx to K31Gxx (October 2001) >L01Gxx to L30Gxx (November 2001) >M01Gxx to M31Gxx (December 2001) >A01Hxx to A31Hxx (January 2002) >B01Hxx to B28Hxx (February 2002) >C01Hxx to C01Hxx (March 2002) > >Also the labels will be a part number for specific breeds of ammo. The only >Gold Dot parts numbers being recalled are: > >53612 9mm 115 gr. +P+ >53614 9mm 115 gr. >53617 9mm 124 gr. +P >53618 9mm 124 gr >53619 9mm 147 gr >53730 9mm 124 gr. (US Govt Spec and Sales) >53947 .40 165 gr. (Mostly sold to BATF) >53961 .40 155 gr. >53962 .40 180 gr. >53970 .40 165 gr. (US Govt Spec and Sales) > >Also an extremely small quantity of .25, .32, and .380 ammo was manufactured >with these primers. Presently one lot of .380 boxed in 50 round boxes is >being recalled. >To qualify for recall, ammunition must (a) be from one of the recalled lot >numbers and (b) have a part number listed above. Ammunition with the >indicated lot numbers but a part number other than those listed is not >being recalled. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Misc. Stuff To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 8:49:34 PDT Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > I am curious to know if anyone else on the digest is experiencing the same > problem that I am. On a daily basis I am getting e-mails with attachments > form unknown sources. They have been disguised as coming from the digest, > from my old work E-address, or from my own ISP. One of the ones that I > received this morning were made to look like it was being bounced back from > the digest (I haven't sent anything to the digest in a while). When I check > the properties and message source I can see that they have been routed > through different sources and that it's not sent from who it appears to be > sent from. There is/was a virus floating around the last few weeks that did things like that. Rest assured that no virus actually came from this list, tho... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 9:03:27 PDT Subject: [Eskrima] Happy B-Day to us Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net The Eskrima list is now 8 years old. Happy Birthday to us! :) Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Does size really matter? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 9:17:31 PDT Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > stick that I could effectively wield. I have used a variety of hardwood > sticks over the years and have broken nearly every type of hardwood that is > commonly used in the FMAs. I have had and seen various sticks made out of > bahi, kamagong, cocobolo, ironwood, and numerous other hardwoods break and > shatter. I've had good luck with Bahi. The others seem to be so hard that they are brittle. Rob, have you easily broken Bahi sticks? Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 08:30:25 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Tapado in action Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All: > Another correction to the article... > > > In 1960, Romeo Mamar founded the art of tapado which utilizes a > > forty-three inch staff held at one end with both hands. The art has only > > two movements in its repertoire, and they are simultaneously blocks and > > strikes. > > Tapado uses a 50" staff and has three movements in its repertoire. It > comes out of Oido De Caburata Arnis. > > Ray Terry Two Tapado fighters can be seen in our video "Real Contact Stickfighting Volume 6: The Stick versus other Weapons" available at http://dogbrothers.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=DBIOS&Ca tegory_Code=Videos Yip, Crafty Dog --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 08:45:39 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Hammers and Carpenters Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All: Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Selamat Mas Ray: Does size matter, yes it does. In what prespective? Play game or reality to disengage In play game or tournament were life is not at stake, then it really does not matter at all. The lighter stick will play more a lead role. Also a fact that folks are and do have the ability to take on blows, that is also a fact. Humans are very resiliant, Rodney King proved that also in the Video beating. Dog brother tournaments prove that, seen some very nasty bangs for sure. Pending how the hitting is done. In Silat Sera the hip will play more a leading role. meaning close quarter hitting. Meaning larger diameter sticks. 36" long and 1"7/8 in Diameter. Wild hitting not really the idea, so training the key to surgical strikes. The tip of the stick the area doing the deed. Why, because look at a golf ball I could not throw that ball far enough without throwing my arm out But for a certain the clubhead spead of the club will launch the ball way over 200 yards. So is it with the way you hit a stick to produce awsome power to destroy. So does size matter, yes it does I would take the bigger stick to produce lesser amount of hits, but more breaking hits versus surface hits that are a bit different then deep thrust hits results from the tip of a larger diameter hit. Always looking at the combative side. If Battle brakes out, what would you carry? You can argue allday long of preference, and all are correct As long as the intended use is defined or what kind of stick, the Soempat Curved will have a slide edge over my straight stick Play or disengaged Again define the use Pak Vic Status: RO > > Pak Vic, > > Given chapter 8 in your excellent treatise "Serak The Tsunami" (see > http://www.serak.com) you are obviously big into the study of physics in > martial arts and elsewhere. What say you on the 'does size matter' > question? > > I would think (and it feels) that, yes, it does matter. But given the > probable ability to greatly accerate a lighter stick to the target, what > other issues of interest are coming into play? > > Ray Terry > raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Although not asked, may I interject that I think Pak Vic makes excellent points here. Our tastes in sticks I think are similar-- I remember in the late 1980s at the Inosanto Academy that he was intrigued by a particular stick I had which I was honored to give him :-) Ray's question has merit as well. In Dog Brother fighting, I have long made the point about the early fencing masks allowing for impact. This is quite true-- but I would add it should also be remembered that even light shots to the face and certain other parts of the head would have more effect than given credit for. Thus, our fighting does bias towards a heavier stick than might pertain in the absence of any gear whatsoever. Also noteworthy in the context of Pak Vic's comments, is the matter of length. We are starting to see some longer sticks coming to Gatherings such as Dogzilla's 36s. Woof, Crafty Dog --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Warrior's Ar To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 17:06:29 PDT Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hopefully this isn't a dup given the recent listserver problems... Ray Forwarded message: Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 14:05:16 PDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Warrior's Art Article correction. > ... And in 1939, Doce Pares was joined by the six Canete > brothers. With differences in political view, Bacon left and founded the > Balintawak Self-Defense Club. Eulogio "Yoling" Canete became the new Doce > Pares president. Doce Pares (Cebu) records follow. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ===================================================================== DP records This list is according to a record from Fortunato Penalosa, who was secretary of Doce Pares from the beginning in 1932 until 1941. 1932 Officers: President- Eulogio Canete V-President- Teodoro Saavedra Secretary- Fortunato Penalosa Treas.- Marcelo Verano Auditor- Deogracias Nadela Sgts.-at-arms- Filemon Canete Rodolfo Quijano Historian- Pio Deiparine Directors- Florentino Canete Federico Saavedra Strong Tupas Juanito Lauron Magdaleno Cabasan Advisors- Atty. Cecilio De La Victoria Atty. Margarito Revilles Dr. Anastacio Deiparine Members- Lorenso Saavedra Amancio Saavedra Maximo Canete Silvestre Canete Tirso Canete Rufino Canete Andres Canete Ciriaco Canete At the time Doce Pares was formed, there were 12 original members, and 12 more were immediately added to reach the necessary 24. --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 12:00:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Eskrima] update to Gm Cacoy Canete seminars Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Just a quick update on the list of 2002 seminars by Gm Cacoy Canete. July 27-28 in Montreal, Canada, hosted by Chris Bautista. Chris' contact number is 514-341-8755. Ray Terry --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest