Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 01:53:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #225 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sender: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Unsubscribe: Status: OR Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<-------- The Inayan/Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list -------->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://InayanEskrima.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Police Sticks (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 2. Size does it matter? (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 3. IMA vs. FMA (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 4. Russian police: Fists first, talk later (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 5. Mr. Kneitinger, Redux (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 6. GM Ciriaco "Cacoy" Canete seminar schedule (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 7. Re: GM Ciriaco "Cacoy" Canete seminar schedule (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 8. Re: IMA vs. FMA (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 9. Re: Warrior's Art (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 13:05:52 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Police Sticks Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I am a Police Officer and one of my weapons is an 26" ASP. Also I am a Hapkido practioner. I have to agree with some of what is written about the sticks and thier use. I feel that for some the older "Billy club" or PR-@4 would be a better tool than an ASP. That being said , I think the real issue is liberal thinking and liability being placed ahead of Officer safety. The Politicians are more woried about what will be written in the papers on the incident than the Cop's obituary. I havent much experience using my asp on the street ,as I have found I use OC spray and joint locks/chokes and such before I have used the stick. But I did get a chance to use it with the big red suit and I didnt use the techniques they taught, I used the asp like a DAn Bong (short stick). And I aimed my strikes between the pad edges at his arms. The training asp was padded ,but still seemed to hurt and I could see through his face mask that his were real wide. I just used a more whipping action on the stick. I still smile at the reaction of my fellow participants.... --__--__-- Message: 2 To: "'eskrima@martialartsresource.net'" Subject: [Eskrima] Size does it matter? Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 10:20:03 -0700 From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net About fighting drunks and druggies.... Long time ago, I watched two friends of mine fight this short, stocky guy that was very very drunk. My friends were both all state athletes in track and football, so they were both very big, strong, etc.... Neither was a martial artist, but both were accomplished streetfighters. One of my friends pounded on him for about 10 minutes with no effect. Then my other friend took his place and pounded him for another ten minutes. I watched the drunk guy take dozens of uppercuts, roundhouses, to the head and face, including a very hard kick to the face. None of these had any effect on the drunk guy. Because we were at an outdoor festival, my friends were asked to take the fight offsite. They went across the street and picked up where they left off, each of my friends taking turns (5-10 min each) pounding this guy. Still no effect. Finally some other guys stepped in and broke it up since it was obvious that the drunk guy was feeling no pain. Many years later, one of my students who was in the Guardian Angels had his knee severly damaged while trying to subdue a guy on PCP. It took 10 guys to get him down. Needless to say, these experiences had a strong influence on my approach to fighting. I was taught by Masters Mike Inay and Max Sarmiento that no fight should last longer than 7 seconds. At the end of that time the opponent should be on the ground and CANNOT get up. Regardless of my weapon, my targets are the eyes, knees, and elbows, with the objective to destroy everything that makes them work. My training partners and I used to study body mechanics and physiology to see how the body was put together so we could more effectively take it apart. Then, we would play a game to see how much permanent damage we could do to an opponent in 7 seconds or less. I got so good at it, that I then had to spend a year learning "nicer ways to fight" (mainly Aikido and Ju Jitsu) in case I had to subdue a friend. Over the years, I have avoided many fights by telling the person that I don't play "punch you in the stomach and hold you down until you say uncle". I promise them that if we fight, their body will never work the same for the rest of their life. It has been a very effective deterrent. My friends and students call me "The Wimp" because I will do anything to avoid a fight. I feel very proud of that title. Guro Garry --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 10:34:21 -0700 To: From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] IMA vs. FMA Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net on 6/25/02 9:53 AM, eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net wrote: > And BTW, when we say FMA here in the Philippines, we > do not include silat which is IMA (Indonesian Martial > Arts). Only in the West do you guys put together FMA > and IMA. I agree that in the Philippines most folks do not know about Silat and if they do they might think that it is just an Indonesian thing. But Silat is an indigenous martial art to the Philippines and is definitely a FMA. I would also add that some of the best martial art practitioner and instructors that I have met are Philippine Muslim Persilat (Silat Practitioners). If you would like to see it first hand go visit the Rizal Memorial Sports Complex in Manila which is just south and west of Ermita. The PhilSilat Office is at the north west corner of the Baseball Stadium. You will will find tribal practitioners and coaches who are Yakan and Tausug. The PhilSilat organization is a subsidiary organization of the Philippine Sports Commission which is the main Sports Organization in the Philippines. They also have coaches from Indonesia and Malaysia. One thing that irritates me is that because of ignorance and the "bakya" attitude towards all things local these foreign coaches are given preferential status and paid more than the local Philippine Coaches. Even when the local coaches/instructors have produced better athletes. For example, Guro Hadji Yasser Tanadjalan who is Yakan from Basilan for a short time was head coach. During his tenure the Philippines for the first time received Gold and Silver medals in international competition in both sparing and forms. No other coach has had his success. Still, because of prestige and politics they are using foreign coaches who they pay 5 to 10 times more than the local coaches. When there are gatherings of coaches at the Philippine Sports Commission it supposedly looks good for PhilSilat that it's top coaches are foreigners. While using the local coaches as the real trainers and work horses. If someone not in the know came to one of these events it would be easy to assume that Silat is not indigineous or that our local stuff is watered down variations of the "mother stuff" from Indonesia and Malaysia. I am asserting that the Silat in the Philippines is just as good and just as valid. I am a big fan of Pak Vik and Sera Serak. I love the Indonesian stuff. I just want to see the Philippine Silat appreciated and respected as well. Ok, I'm off my soap box now. Cheers, Elrik --__--__-- Message: 4 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 17:29:05 +0000 From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Russian police: Fists first, talk later Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello, I am a practitioner of Modern Arnis in Vancouver Island BC Canada and I follow the discussions in this forum with great interest. The recent topic of police technique (ie Britain and Germany's use of baton and cattle prod) made me think of a very interesting episode of the The Learning Channel where I saw a documentary on European police tactics. It showed the Russian Police and their 'Boots first, questions later' approach. Does anyone know more about the training of the Russians? It seemed like a very effective way of taking care of business. RW _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx --__--__-- Message: 5 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 11:36:11 -0700 (PDT) From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Mr. Kneitinger, Redux Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > The below was posted to another digest today. > > > > ----------- > > Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 12:33:53 -0500 > > From: "B K" > > Subject: Trashing People Who We Don't Like > > > > > > To all; > > It's come to my attention that ray terry has once again taken to trash > > my good name under the guise of "information", due to the irrational > > behavior/logic of a Modern Arnis practitioner's desire to get attention. [snip] ... many lies and misinformation deleted, but if you'd like to see it let me know and I'd be happy to forward it to you as I already have a few others. Actually folks, I don't know Mr. Bill Kneitinger. What little we do know about him are some of the different email addresses that he uses, the ISP that he uses, where he lives and that he loves to pester, harass and insult others. A good name he has not. I only got involved because he was bothering a friend. After reading some of his comments he was promptly removed from the Eskrima/FMA list. Any reasonable person would have done the same. His threats and insults were just too severe. It was only later that more facts came out and we learned just how many individuals he had been harassing. Some have already commented here. So, Mr. Kneitinger, stay on this other list. You are not welcome here, or anywhere else civil individuals frequent. Ray Terry --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 12:13:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Eskrima] GM Ciriaco "Cacoy" Canete seminar schedule To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hey all, A few issues back someone posted the seminar schedule for GM Canete, I was just wondering if there were any updates on the contact list. I'm in NJ and out of the three seminars scheduled only one (Don Edwards, Livingston) had contact info. Does anyone have info on the Morganville or AC seminars. Thanks in advance Kevin ===== LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Subject: Re: [Eskrima] GM Ciriaco "Cacoy" Canete seminar schedule To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 13:01:51 PDT From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > A few issues back someone posted the seminar > schedule for GM Canete, I was just wondering if there > were any updates on the contact list. I'm in NJ and > out of the three seminars scheduled only one (Don > Edwards, Livingston) had contact info. Does anyone > have info on the Morganville or AC seminars. As of three days ago, no. Sorry. But Mr. Edwards isn't so bad. :) Check out the one he is hosting. Ray Terry --__--__-- Message: 8 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 17:01:49 -0500 Subject: Re: [Eskrima] IMA vs. FMA From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net As long as we're on the topic - Is there a database for IMA instructors like there is for FMA instructors? Andy --__--__-- Message: 9 Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Warrior's Art To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 17:14:35 PDT From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Then, on August 19, NARAPHIL sponsored the First National Invitational > Arnis Tournament in Manila. Among the masters who participated in the > "masters sparring division" were Cacoy Canete from Cebu, Timoteo Maranga > and Alfredo Mangcal from Mindanao, Jose Mena, Benjamin Luna Lema and > Florencio Pecate from Manila, and Hortencio Navales from Negros > Occidental. In both tournaments Cacoy Canete reigned as champion. > Interestingly, the most infamous master, Antonio Ilustrisimo, refused to > compete under the tournament's rules. In response, Ilustrisimo made the > statement: "If anyone wants to take my reputation, they will have to > fight me with a sword." There were no challengers. Just an updte to the above story... At the time of this tournament, 'Tatang' Ilustrisimo was 75 years old. His 'challenge' was viewed in light of this simple fact, and thus there were no takers. Now, the above fact should not be viewed as a negative comment toward Tatang or Kali Ilustrisimo. Just acknowledgement that if we are lucky enough to have a long life, we will all suffer the ravages of age. Ray Terry --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest