Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 21:24:13 -0500 Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #230 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Sender: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Unsubscribe: Status: RO Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<-------- The Inayan/Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list -------->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://InayanEskrima.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Knife fighting movies (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 2. Proof! (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 3. Re: One Shot and they keep coming (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 4. Repy to Kali in the movies (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 5. RP- Resignation snafu (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 6. Re: Re: One Shot and they keep coming (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 7. KUNTAO WEEKEND SEMINAR (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 8. RE: Re: One Shot and they keep coming (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 9. Re: Re: One Shot and they keep coming (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 10. Re: Value of the Stick (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 11. Re: A favor ... (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 12. But of Course...was crappy weapon...was size does matter... (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) --__--__-- Message: 1 To: Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 10:55:16 -0700 Organization: Simple Solutions From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Knife fighting movies Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Greetings, The "Hunted" sounds like it is going to be a good movie. I do want to point out that the movie "Exposure" was a movie specifiaclly about knife fighting, choreographed by Chris Kent with the FMA's as its core structure. It possibly was not done on the same budget of Hunted , but the fight sequences are excellent, five people die in the movie, all due to knife work, not a gun is ever pulled. The intensity of the encounters is very high and if you haven't seen it put it high on your list. Did I mention it was a box office flop? Tom Meadows --__--__-- Message: 2 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 18:44:02 +0000 From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Proof! Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >"You have been at this game long enough to know that placement is bullshit."< Placement is bullshit? So, by that rationale, a shot to the paretial lobe will produce the same effect as a shot to the patella? How about this, will a kick to the nads be on the same level as a kick to the stomach? And if the answer to these questions is yes, what scary-assed alien species are you capping teeth for?? :) >"All placement does is increase your odds of success."< THAT'S ALL I NEED IT TO DO!!!! All gas does is make the car go. All air does is keep us alive. All gravity does is keep us from floating away. >"Hit a guy with a stick anywhere, & there is someone who can take it"< Of course, some people can run faster than others, some can hold thier breath longer, etc. What you're describing is an anomaly, the exception to the rule. It is the RARE individual who trains to increase his pain threshold by repeatedly smacking himself in the head. And if they do, what are the odds his knees can take such a shot? His throat? His eyes? Tell me about training to toughen up your larnyx. >"Even the poor guard who was shot in the head yesterday lived for 24 hours before death."< Yeah, but he wasn't about to go running any marathons in those 24 hours, now was he? So, we see that placement is not bullshit, but a critical, integral part of fighting. One target doesn't work, hammer it until it breaks, or attack multiple targets. >"The take out shot has power and placement you have to have both. If you have not trained the power you are deluding yourself about what you can handle."< Agreed, completely. My point, exactly. Hit nail on head. >"You have to worry about power. you need to respect it, cultivate it, fear it ,conquer it and finally continue to explore it."< You left out buy it a martini. :) Bobbe Edmonds --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 14:45:20 -0400 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: One Shot and they keep coming Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Mr Fung makes very good points. Also a little Filipino moro history shows us that several rounds from a .38 caliber could not stop the moro. Which, I beleive led to the .45 caliber. Maybe getting a bigger stick will work, or a sharp bladed weapon, though, I have seen chickens run around with their heads cut off. Bernie --__--__-- Message: 4 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 19:39:59 +0000 From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Repy to Kali in the movies Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello Everyone, Sorry about that Ray ,the message was forwarded to me. I accidentally deleted my header feed into the storyline all the came out was "Hello Everyone" and then Guro Rafeal's post to me. I always try to sign my posts, so there are no doubts as to who sent it. I am looking forward to seeing the movie! Train Hard, It is the Way! Guro Steve - Sayoc Kali Kayan Isa Guro - _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com --__--__-- Message: 5 To: Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 13:58:51 -0700 From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] RP- Resignation snafu Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Philippines: Dispute Over Continued U.S. Presence Results in Resignation Snafu Jun 27, 2002 Summary The confusion surrounding the alleged resignation of the Philippine foreign affairs secretary has drawn renewed attention to the debate inside Manila over expanding military ties with the United States. But whatever opposition the secretary brings to President Gloria Macapagal Arroyo's plans is being sidelined by the benefits she hopes to gain through continued joint training operations with U.S. forces. Analysis A day of confusion in Manila came to an end June 27 when Philippine Vice President Teofisto Guingona told reporters he will not resign from his post as foreign affairs secretary. The misunderstanding began when acting Press Secretary Silvestre Afable released a letter of acceptance for Guingona's resignation that was signed by President Gloria Macapagal Arroyo June 26. According to Philippine media reports, Guingona and Arroyo met June 26, and the result of their discussions led Arroyo to believe Guingona was resigning his post. The two have disagreed over the presence of U.S. forces as part of current training exercises with Philippine troops on the rebel-infested southern island of Basilan. In fact, Guingona was a key opponent of the 1999 Visiting Forces Agreement between Manila and Washington that allowed for the resumption of U.S. military visits to the Philippines. After the Arroyo letter was released, Guingona quickly told Philippine reporters he had not resigned, then met with Arroyo again. Following this meeting Guingona reiterated that he was not resigning, and the press secretary told reporters the release of the acceptance letter had been a mistake. Rather than releasing it, Afable told reporters, he was supposed to have torn it up. Some Philippine papers cited unnamed government officials as saying Guingona was in fact going to resign his post, but not for a few months. Further, Arroyo reportedly was considering giving the foreign affairs post to a member of the opposition in order to regain control over the Senate. Whether a clerical mistake or a political ploy to press Guingona aside and appeal to the opposition, his temporary "resignation" clearly was influenced by the significant difference in opinion between himself and the president over the involvement of U.S. troops in the Philippines. Contrary to Guingona's caution regarding U.S. deployments, Arroyo has called for continued joint exercises beyond the end of the current Balikatan 02-1 exercises July 31. On June 21, Arroyo told the Second Mindanao Budget Summit that she already was planning the next round of Balikatan exercises with U.S. forces, and they would pick up immediately following the deadline to close the current operations. Furthermore, Arroyo said she had approved an extension for U.S. military engineers and their Marine guards in Basilan beyond July 31. U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has since verified some of Arroyo's remarks, saying U.S. Special Forces training operations will continue in the Philippines. Despite Guingona's opposition, Arroyo will continue to expand military relations with the United States, hoping to gain an economic boost, raise international confidence in the stability of the Philippines and, perhaps most importantly, maintain the backing of the Philippine military -- which will allow her to weather most political storms. --__--__-- Message: 6 Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: One Shot and they keep coming To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 14:51:36 -0700 (PDT) From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Mr Fung makes very good points. Also a little Filipino moro history shows > us that several rounds from a .38 caliber could not stop the moro. Which, > I beleive led to the .45 caliber. Maybe getting a bigger stick will work, > or a sharp bladed weapon, though, I have seen chickens run around with > their heads cut off. That was the story that Guro I had in his FMA book that has since turned into a bit of urban legend. Now, I haven't researched this story in the last few years, but at last check it was incorrect. Speaking of headless chickens, that is a memory that I cannot forget. Can't remember how many times I witnessed it, but once is probably enough for it to stick with you the rest of your life... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 To: Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 13:46:37 -0400 From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] KUNTAO WEEKEND SEMINAR Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net CHAOS International PRESENTS A KUNTAO WEEKEND CHAOS International Headquarters 11235 Alpharetta Hwy 118. Roswell, GA 30076 30 Minutes North of Atlanta July 27 11am - 7pm * $85 July 28 9am - 2pm * $50 Register for both days only $125 (CHAOS Members pay Discounted price of $105) SEMINAR OPEN TO FIRST 50 REGISTRANTS ONLY! Participants will learn Kuntao combat drills and techniques - Designed to supplement your current training styles and teaching techniques. Master instructors, Professor Rick Hernandez and Renshi Pete Pukish, Will instruct seminar participants in: Kuntao Combat Drills Sikaran (Combative application of low line destruction) Visitacion Knife Methodology Internal Power Development Close Quarter Combative Survival of Knife Encounters BECOME A MEMBER NOW & SAVE Become a charter member of CHAOS International and save on the yearly membership fee. Normally $125, the fee is only $100 if we receive your request for membership and payment before July 15, 2002. The CHAOS website will be operational in early July 2002. www.chaosintl.org If you have questions, call Pete Pukish at 770-521-1152 or e-mail him At ppukish@mindspring.com. Or rick@tacsafe.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 17:21:44 -0500 Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Re: One Shot and they keep coming To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Ray, You wrote: << That was the story that Guro I had in his FMA book that has since turned into a bit of urban legend. Now, I haven't researched this story in the last few years, but at last check it was incorrect. >> Well, if it's just an urban legend, then it's pretty far spread: http://www.wwiitech.net/main/usa/weapons/coltmodel1911/ http://huntingsociety.org/HistoryM-1911.html http://www.m1911.org/history.htm I'm sure I could find more references. But these would seem to indicate that there's at least some truth to what Guro Dan wrote (and, usually, even urban legends have some foundation in reality :-) Mike Casto sikal@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 9 Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: One Shot and they keep coming To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 17:05:02 -0700 (PDT) From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > You wrote: > << That was the story that Guro I had in his FMA book that has since turned > into > a bit of urban legend. Now, I haven't researched this story in the last few > years, but at last check it was incorrect. >> > > Well, if it's just an urban legend, then it's pretty far spread: > http://www.wwiitech.net/main/usa/weapons/coltmodel1911/ > http://huntingsociety.org/HistoryM-1911.html > http://www.m1911.org/history.htm > > I'm sure I could find more references. But these would seem to indicate that > there's at least some truth to what Guro Dan wrote (and, usually, even urban > legends have some foundation in reality :-) Well, yes, I could be wrong. But here are the points that I recall. The military had already been using the .45 in a revolver for some time. The had been looking at going to a highly reliable semi-auto many years prior to adopting the 1911. -And- the Moro warriors were difficult at times to put down with the old underpower .30 cal Krag rifles. So again, as I recall, the encounters w/the Moros perhaps had more to do with dropping the Krag for the .30-06 Springfield than they did with adopting the M1911 in .45ACP. After all, sidearms in general are not the best man stoppers, even in .45. But your battle rifle of choice just hasta gotta do the trick. Good round placement does help... :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 21:06:47 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Value of the Stick Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net <<< The Dentist struck a nerve with that crack about the stick being a crappy weapon on a stickfighting list. What the hell does he know anyway? Sorry to offend but the stick is still a crappy weapon.>>> I wasn't offended I was just amused that someone who had spent so much time in the FMAs would make such a statement. <<>> I know quite a few individuals, male and female, that can hit with authority under stress and quite accurately. If you only know a few then I guess we don't know and train with the same people. <<>> Congratulations. 30 years and only been hit once hard in the head is a true indicator of your skill and training. I was wondering if you had ever been able to put someone down with your training? I know quite a few individuals that train in the FMAs who have never been hit hard or are actually capable of using their stick to deal with an opponent. Most of them come from FMA's McDojos. They all know thousands of neat techniques, hundreds of drills, a hundred more variations of the drills, really cute looking disarms, and multitudes of other techniques that just don't seem to work under stress. They remind me of a story I heard a long time ago from Guro Dan. He was telling a couple of us about a recent trip overseas that he had made. He said that the country that he had visited had both empty hand and weapon techniques. With their weapons they had lots of pretty stuff. Cute looking forms and techniques but hit them once with any basic strike and they couldn't handle it. Their whole training philosophy seemed to revolve around form rather than function. He said it was really sad and an eyeopener but he also said he feared that in the future some of the FMAs might fall prey to the same philosophy. Take care, Rob McDonald --__--__-- Message: 11 Subject: Re: [Eskrima] A favor ... To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 18:59:27 -0700 (PDT) From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Hi all, would it be possible for everyone to start signing their posts. > > Or, better yet, Ray, is it possible to set the list server to provide the > poster's name in the header info? > > The only ID on any of the posts is "eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net" > ... so, if the poster doesn't sign it, then it's kind of hard to figure out > who's saying what :-) > > Mike Casto > sikal@yahoo.com Thanks for noticing, I was wondering if anyone would (and mention it). You're the second. Yes, this feature is a setting in the Mailman software that I had not tried before. It adds a bit more privacy to those that post. One can still put their address in a sig file (as Mr. Casto does above), but it will not show in the email header. Why? A couple/few weeks back someone pulled all the addrs from those that had posted a msg to this list and spammed them with a mass mailing. Several expressed concern over this event. This was not the first time, it has been done by others in the past. You'd think they'd know this is a bozo no-no. So I thought I'd turn this feature on to see how it worked. Now I, and you, know. Not sure I really care for it, but spam (well intended or not) is growing VERY rapidly as of late, so... Comments on your preference? Let me know at the below address. Thanks. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 12 To: Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 19:07:18 -0700 From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] But of Course...was crappy weapon...was size does matter... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net ----- Original Message ----- > This is a stereotype. But of course you are right. This is a generic conversation that is not all encompassing. You bring points that are correct and worthy and in themselves can be hold threads of discussion. >...From your post, I'm going to assume > you are involved with DBMA, No my backrounds starts at the filipino kali academy in Harbor city Ca. when I was a kid under Sifu/Guro Inosanto and Bustillo the branches off to all the usual accomplisses. The likes of Crafty, Paulson, Imada, Richardson, Vunak etc. I have been in class with and many I have trained with or under. Crafty can tell you the format of DBMA but in the early days of what was Chinese kickboxing/Kali we trained hard with contact and the early thin Fencing masks. Many of us still do this today body permitting. Crafty and others I think started DBMA before it was DBMA in or around the Inosanto Marina academy as personal research which Inosanto always said we had to do to get better. Crafty took the old ways which were dying as lawsuits increased for the high profile and the more white collar realized they want to train but no pain. Today we have DBMA. Ask Crafty I think this is the short story. > How would you define > Marc Knaus? I've seen him (on video) play the hit & run > with skill, & I've seen the crash & overwhelm. ...we find an > underlying versatility in thier training. Do not mix training with reality. I do not know Eric but I have seen him. I have seen him do things like go out to stickfight with bare feet and base ball battinggloves. I do not think this is his preferred method of real stick use but is more likely his method of pushing his personal envelope to avoid rude awakenings... > >"Someone posted about the cop who got shot \ > save cop. Second cop story was about the perp > who wielded a knife > In both examples you cite, the idea of training is > really in question, is it not? Not really. The thread is about weapon value. The point is to not focus on the weapon stick/knife/gun but focus on defense or offense or counter offensive and to use what is at your disposal appropriotely. Sometimes as the one cop story pointed out it is not the stick or the gun. > Once again, stereotypical, and not reflective of the > truth. Yes a stereotype. Refective of the truth you bet it is. We live and train in the lower 48 states and 95% of have a job to go to on Monday that has nothing to do with wacking another person on the head with a stick. We ned to be healthy and many of us have other mouths to feed. If you don't believe me think about how many people you have witnessed that look great hitting a heavy bag with no ability to really understand the fighting measure in real-time. If you don't believe me read the post from Guro Crafty about hitting the moving target. He is a credentialed Guro and I'm just a dentist. >Do you think everyone trains for simulation only? When it the last time you drove your elbow into your training partners nose? I am not trying to be mean or disrespectful. But we have to separate and realize that there is a huge difference between the hardest training and real-life in real-time with real body parts at stake, plus the dynamic interaction of at least two people. >Guro Crafty's narrative > says: "It would be difficult to tell if that would have > done any damage without the gear". Well, no, not at all. > TAKE OFF THE GEAR. No it is not that simple. This will not give you truth but will bring you closer to it. Changing any dynamic will not yield reproducible absolute results. There are many factors. In fact there are enough for a novel. > Pardon my facetiousness here, but DUHH!! I thought this > was about the effectiveness of the stick, No actually this thread was about a good weapon. I do not doubt its effectiveness. Finally, Crafty wrote: > Woof All: > ...to hit a moving uncooperative man can be a good trick and a lot of > people lacking experience/training in this regard may be in for rude > surprises under real time pressure... This was the most important statement I've seen on this list in a long time. This one should be in fortune cookies. Often even with training/experience there can be a rude surprise. I got very comfortable after 30 years and ka--bang there is Island Dog and I have a few less braincells! I wonder when is my next rude awakening? Regards, Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S. Torrance, Ca. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest