Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 07:39:34 -0500 Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #240 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Sender: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Unsubscribe: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<-------- The Inayan/Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list -------->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://InayanEskrima.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. RE: 300 Hour Dan (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 2. Re: Sayoc Kali reply (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 3. SK in the FAQ (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 4. Payong/Sumbrada drills (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 5. Beware hardwood sticks (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 6. 300 hour dan rank (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 7. Mangisursuro's Regional Origins in RP (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 15:24:19 -0500 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] RE: 300 Hour Dan Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Basically re-hashing what others have said ... but 300 hours for a black belt seems a little on the weak side (though it might explain some things about some of the black belts I've run into over the years). I put in over 4000 before I tested under Guru Ken ... and that's not counting the background I had before I began training under Guru Ken. Now, I did put in about 400 to get my black belt in Shen Chuan ... but I already had the understanding (from my previous training in Sikal and other arts) when I started so 90% of what I had to learn in Shen Chuan was just memorization of the curriculum. But to take a beginner and have a legitimate (in my estimation) black belt in 300 hours seems pretty far fetched. Even something like boxing ... 5 punches and a handful of footwork and body mechanics to develop (not belittling boxing, of course ... but it's really about as stripped down as a MA can get) ... I can see someone getting decent in 300 hours. Maybe at a place where they could consider going pro (maybe someone with a boxing background can elaborate on that more). But I wouldn't consider them a "black belt" in boxing with 300 hours ... though I'm sure they'd be very competent. Now take the average MA that has quite a bit more to it (whether fluff or meat ... depending on the system) and 300 hours seems woefully inadequate to producing a black belt. Of course, the definition of black belt also comes into question. To me, a black belt should have a thorough knowledge of the basic curriculum and a firm grasp of the underlying principles of the basics. That would be the absolute minimum, in my estimation, for black belt requirements. But, personally, I think a black belt should also have at least a basic understanding of how to communicate the basic principles (teach) and how to apply the basic principles (fight). But I know a lot of schools that aren't that demanding ... all they require is just a basic level of proficiency (not even, necessarily, understanding) of the basic curriculum. But even with this requirement, 300 hours seems weak to me. Maybe I just expect too much :-) Mike --__--__-- Message: 2 Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Sayoc Kali reply To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 13:48:25 -0700 (PDT) From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Ray it looks pretty clear to me that they are saying or am i missing > something about the intent of the question? Elliot, Sorry, I guess I missed the response to the Super Kicks inquiry. Trust me, no hidden agenda in my question. Being an in-your-face type, that is not my style. I know little to nothing about Sayoc Kali and thus could have nothing against it. A simple question was posed and thus far we have seen one response saying essentially 'must not be the case as there aren't any Sayoc instructors in Virginia', which is an excellent response. Then a post about the style being all knife all the time. Great! An ok statement, but a bit out of place as it doesn't address the original question. Oh, well... Time to go swing a stick anyway... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 3 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 18:23:29 -0700 (PDT) From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] SK in the FAQ Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net While we're on the topic of Sayoc Kali... There is no mention of SK in the FMA FAQ. Would someone care to submit an entry? It should be in the form of the other style entries currently found in the FAQ, be non-commercial (no hype) and just cover the basics of the style, history, influences, etc. Thanks. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 22:55:59 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Payong/Sumbrada drills Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Doug, Here my 20 cent contribution on this question. I am not sure what you want to hear, but hey is not going to hurt I try give you a little intro to this style to the best of my knowledge. Origin of the drill is from the Shades of the Umbrella which means in Eskrimador Terminology is Payong Sumbrada. Shading block, crossada block, over head blocks, rising blocks, all of this is under the category of which known as Sumbrada with commonly associated with follow up strike of Payong techniques, or overhead redondo creating circle like umbrella travelling over the head towards the target, like head, neck, hand etc. On the other Eskrimador probably has a different meaning, some eskrimador called this " Agos Bigayan" or flows, block and strike, "Suklian" that goes like this (I strike you to the head then you block and then you will strike and I block type of drills. I am not sure what Box you are referring here, but hey the box in my system is the Body target, some Eskrimador Box is the Square position of the distances from you to your opponent, some refer this as the defensive theory of the block, like the Box block, Ding-ding or four walls, a blocks that open accopanied with both hands and low bend knee position to create a strong solid position. I believed that this is one of the "universal term", every Eskrimador, Arnisador, Estokadores, even the newly term Kali, used this Payong and Sumbrada terminology, basically related techniques, its show's the techniques in its very name. Shades and counter attacks, I hope I answer your intended question. Gumagalang with respect, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Reseach Center USA > > Can anyone please tell me the origins of one of the more "popular" > drills practiced in Eskrima, namely Payong Sumbrada (Box pattern)? For > what purpose were they developed? > > Thanks in advance. > > Doug. --__--__-- Message: 5 To: Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 23:47:25 -0700 From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Beware hardwood sticks Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Please do not use hardwood sticks in your stick to stick contact drills. Prolonged stick to stick contact with inflexible hardwood sticks will eventually lead to tendonitis and other joint problems. Rattan, being flexible, will absorb enough of the shock as to protect your joints from damage. The old Eskrimadors used rattan for practice and saved the hardwood for real fights. Better to destroy a few rattan sticks in training than destroy your joints. Regards, Tuhon Bill McGrath --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 22:34:16 -0700 (PDT) To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] 300 hour dan rank Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello all: Regarding the 300 hour dan rank - assuming that a raw beginner will practice at 2 hrs/session at 3 sessions/week (i.e. M,W,F) -> that's 6 hrs/week.. @ 4 weeks/mo -> that's 24 hrs/month.. @ 12 mo/yr -> that's 288 hrs/yr.. what the "300 hour dan rank" implies is that a raw beginner who will not miss a 2 hour session for approximately one year and 6 sessions (12 hrs) or the equivalent of 300 hours is already a legitimate 1st dan black belt?! interesting :-) sa amin naman ganito ang sistema: level 1 - minimum of 3 mos(regardless of time put in) - to borrow Ray's previous posting, this would be the equivalent of a person in "condition white" level 2 - minimum of 3 mos (-do-) - "condition yellow" level 3 - minimum of 6 mos (-do-) - "condition orange" level 4 - minimum of 6 mos (-do-) - "condition red" level 5 - minimum of 6 mos (-do-) - "condition black" undertraining instructor - minimum of 1 year (-do-) this means that a person desiring to become a 1st degree/dan instructor, he/she must at least have trained in the Art for not less than 3 years.. para "hinog" ang bata at hindi "hinog sa pilit".. (of course there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule) maybe the others can also share their ideas on the required amount of TIME IN before allowing their students to become 1st degree/dan holders? ...sabagay sabi nga nila its not the amount of time that you put in at the gym that matters but the quality of effort you put in at that time.. to each his own :-) Kali! Kenjo73 Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 21:11:24 -0700 (PDT) To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Mangisursuro's Regional Origins in RP Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I think the late Mangisursuro Mike Inay is from Region 1, or the Ilocos region of northwestern Luzon island, Philippines. That much I can glean from his title, which in straight Ilocano, means "teacher". Add to that the fact that the surname Inay is unique and easy to trace as to origins. In my prelaw college years, there was this college minor official who was the stereotypical Ilocano--short, dark, stocky and by chance he also had the surname "Inay". Too bad Mr. Inay's dead now so I'd have no chance of asking him if he was in anyway related to Suro Mike....but that's for sure.....I mean, how many Inays could there be in the PI, and I mean, they'd all have to be Ilocanos. :) BTW, most of the Pinoy immigrants who settled in Stockton, Calif were either Cebuanos or Ilocanos (notice Max Sarmiento and Angel Cabales). ===== Earn $$ just by receiving and reading email! http://www.resource-a-day.net/member/index.cgi?Brandon96 Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. 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