Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 15:30:36 -0500 Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #253 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Sender: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Unsubscribe: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<-------- The Inayan/Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list -------->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://InayanEskrima.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Beginners Training (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 2. Responsibility (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 3. RE: Internal arts in the Philippines (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 4. Re: Eskrima digest:Doce Pares Seminars!! (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 5. Internal FMA (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 6. (no subject) (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 7. Doce Pares vs. Doce Pares (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 8. Internal Aspects of Filipino Martial Arts (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 9. "Curriculum Based and Dead Pattern" Drills No.1-101 (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 10. Inosanto and Malaysian Arts (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 11. Re: Doce Pares or Doce Pares!!! (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 12. Wildbill advisory (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) --__--__-- Message: 1 To: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 02:37:32 -0400 From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Beginners Training Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello dear fellow FMA enthusiasts, I was just wondering what you guys out there would suggest as a beginner's training method for a starting practitioner of FMA (regardless of style). I plan to enroll in a Doce Pares school near where I live, and was wondering how can I become really good at this and advance rapidly. Is there any kind of specific training or practice someone out there would recommend for a starter? Second question I had for you guys, does anyone out there have any information or have heard of Hock Hochheim? He is the President of the American Congress of Knife Fighters. His website can be seen at www.hockscqc.com. I have purchased his Encyclopeadia of Knife Fighting Vol 1, but have not tried any drills yet. Could anyone give me any information about him or his organization? Would you think it's good to go through a program such as his and earn the rankings through his distance learning program/videos? Thanks all, Alex. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 02:03:17 -0700 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Responsibility Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Regarding forwarded by or not... Thank you, Ray, for moderating the group. Anyone who wants my e-mail can have it . ricklind@oregon.uoregon.edu. I'm not very controversial of late, but who knows, things can change. Mabuhay! PS Great, absolutely great, MARPPIO seminar in Tacoma at Kelly Worden's place last weekend. It was my first but not last Modern Arnis seminar. Regards, Rick, the blue eyed Norse Filipino (don't laugh, it could happen to you) --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 20:52:51 +1000 Organization: Oracle Corporation To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Internal arts in the Philippines Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Eli, Re you query on Internal Arts in Manila. Associated with GM Tony Diego of Kalis Ilustrisimo are some Wu Style Tai Chi and Xing I as well as Go Chu Kung Fu practitioners in Manila's Chinatown. Also, go to Luneta Park and the Chinese Gardens nearby. Have fun! [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a name of John.Chow.vcf] --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:05:10 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Eskrima digest:Doce Pares Seminars!! Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net It was listed that Grandmaster Canete will be having a seminar in New Jersey at Morganville on 8/17/02 hosted by J. Fatio and Eric Colon. The only thing is there is no contact number to reach them by. Would it be possible to get this number? Thank you for your time. Kirk A'Gard --__--__-- Message: 5 To: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:13:58 -0700 From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Internal FMA Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All: Eli asked: "IS THERE ANYBODY OUT THERE WHO CAN HELP ME FIND AN INTERNAL CHINESE, FILIPINO, INDONESIAN MASTER IN MANILA?" Amongst his many talents, the late Punong Guro Edgar Sulite was an excellent Tai Chi man and he showed me a few exercies (non Tai Chi) that I would also classify as internal. I don't know from whom or where he acquired these skills, but perhaps if you contacted people who knew him (e.g. Tony Diego and the Kali Illusitrisimo group, Christopher Ricketts and the Bakbabkan group) perhaps they could help. Woof, Crafty Dog --__--__-- Message: 6 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:09:42 +0000 From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] (no subject) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "Diony is no doubt a very fine person, but how he could claim to be the head of Doce Pares when Cacoy is still VERY alive and active is just beyond belief, IMHO." Actually, as a recognized instructor under both GM's I can tell you the GM "Diony" doesn't claim to be the head of Doce Pares, just the organization he has created.. They are both great instructors have have individually brought about great contributions to the FMA and Doce Pares in particular. Right now they both are driving forces in this system and in my opinion, if you study under one and not the other you are missing quite a bit. For example, under GM "Diony" we have a written curriculum (BTW..credit to Master "Dong" Cuesta for interperting it and to Steve Wolk for typing it) that approaches novel proportions.. many innovations etc..etc.. Under GM Cacoy you get so much of the Corto range, Eskrido etc that you may not get otherwise... And as I'm having GM Cacoy at my school in a few weeks I can attest to the fact that he IS VERY ALIVE and the response to his recent seminar toure has been as good as ever...! I also recently had GM Diony I can tell you he is still incredible as well. Don Edwards www.imafit.com _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 7 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:03:24 -0700 (PDT) From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Doce Pares vs. Doce Pares Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > "Diony is no doubt a very fine person, but how he could claim to be the > head of Doce Pares when Cacoy is still VERY alive and active is just beyond > belief, IMHO." > > Actually, as a recognized instructor under both GM's I can tell you the GM > "Diony" doesn't claim to be the head of Doce Pares, just the organization he > has created.. I never claim to be unbiased, but I do try the best that I am able. The above may be the case since the Fall of (I believe) 2000. Cacoy and Diony apparently had a big falling out, very publically, around that time. In the Cebu press and all. Cacoy called out Diony indicating that if he thought he was the head of Doce Pares then he would have to take it from Cacoy. Diony publically appoligized to Cacoy. They apparently agreed then to leave each other alone and to go their own ways. IMHO Diony, as a former student of Cacoy's, should be helping Cacoy, not running a competiting organization using the name of Doce Pares. It just seems to me, a rather simple minded person, that proper respect should be shown to the last of the original Canete brothers and the primary Canete to defend Doce Pares against all comers all these many years. But what do I know. As always, I reserve the right to be wrong... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 17:08:23 +0000 From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Internal Aspects of Filipino Martial Arts Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net RE: "Anyone have any thoughts on interal practices (either medication or chi gung) in the FMAs?" I've heard it said that Leo Gaje has incredible internal dynamics, which was one of the reasons that he has developed such great speed and power. Momoy Canete's San Miguel Eskrima is very much in the internal camp as well, for the same reason. For those who subsribe to the theory, practicing Filipino weapons forms opens the Heart meridian, in Chinese medicine, (from the pinkie finger to the inner medial arm, to the armpit, to the heart, approximately). This may be why banging sticks alot tends to get you a little crazy as well... Two anecdotal, subjective stories re. the above: 1. Practicing the San Miguel Form, which takes 8-10 minutes to do at a moderate pace, tends to lift the spirit, and circulates Qi and Blood. As such, it functions as a Qi Gong form, in a similar manner to Tai Qi Quan forms. 2. After dislocating my left pinkie finger and having it set, I went to the the park later that day to practice the form. I could barely hold the dagger in my left hand, but could swing the stick with my right. After an hour or two of practice, I left the park, and noticed that I could now close my pinkie finger completely around the dagger without any pain. Best, Steve Lamade San Miguel Eskrima _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:18:02 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] "Curriculum Based and Dead Pattern" Drills No.1-101 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net The training methods in the Filipino Martial Arts rely heavily on drills. Although many are essential in developing certain attributes, we have seen a surge of "curriculum based and dead pattern" drills that seem to be nothing more than a tool used to misguide and isolate one's progression. A drill should target specific areas of required development such as defense, counter / re-counter or energy, to name a few. Once a student understands the basis of a particular drill, he should not dwell on variations. A student will NOT improve any further from variations. If anything he will only get accustomed to memorizing preset movements or dead patterns. Furthermore, the practitioner gains a false sense of confidence in his skill and/or the technique. Why, because such exercises are "fully assisted". The only sure way to hone your skills and develop reflexive responses is through constant sparring, isolated or scenario based drills. Although a drill can have a base to work off of, it should eventually "free flow" unrehearsed and not choreographed. They should be alive, full of intensity, energy, aggression and resistance… Next time you work on such a drill, break from the norm. CAREFULLY disrupt the play either by broken attacks and rhythm, resistance, change in range etc… you'll discover the misconceptions. The only variation should come by way of personal change. John G. Jacobo BAKBAKAN International --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 14:57:49 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Inosanto and Malaysian Arts Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >From bits and pieces of evidence and conversations, I think that Guru Dan's influence in the Maphilindo--bersilat mix are from Jak Othman, and Nick Mustafa. I could be wrong. I am wondering if anyone from IAMA could update me and the list members as to the current state of Maphilindo. That is, what is the current trend considering his time spent with Pak Vic (Serak and a kuntao style), the time spent in Bando subsystems, and changing the curriculum to add more sparring. There are alot of folks on the inosanto.com website interested in the updates as well. Tom Furman powerfactor71839@aol.com --__--__-- Message: 11 To: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 21:04:43 +0100 From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Doce Pares or Doce Pares!!! Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Ray, Cacoy is head of Doce Pares Federation, Diony is head of Doce Pares, Inc (the original multi-style system). Danny was training under both men, so I don't see any immediate political problem for him. The others in the BEF were under Danny/Cacoy, so the split is more based on the promotion of DP generally as against promotion of individuals. Bill --__--__-- Message: 12 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:29:11 -0700 (PDT) From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Wildbill advisory Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net First of all, thanks for Buz for his kind words. Of course one of the folks he was referring to is our old nut case BK, aka Wildbill. Just a heads-up. This just in... I received this warning from a friend: By the way - our old friend "BK" is now emailing as "Gary Menlow". I got two emails last night within 30 minutes of each other. One from "BK" with... X-Originating-IP: [w.x.y.z] and one from "Gary Menlow" with... X-Originating-IP: [w.x.y.z] w.x.y.z were the same IP addr. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest