Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 18:45:29 -0500 Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #255 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Sender: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Unsubscribe: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<-------- The Inayan/Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list -------->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://InayanEskrima.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Wild Bill (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 2. Dead Patterns/John Jacobo (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 3. Beginners Training (W. Hock Hochheim) (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 4. (no subject) (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 5. Upcoming Dog Brothers Camp (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 6. Di d anyone attend the Pekiti Tirsia Seminar? (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 7. Re: (no subject) (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 8. Re: Internal Aspects of Filipino Martial Arts (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 9. Re: Cordillera Arnis Federation (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 10. Visiting the Philippines for FMA & Contacts (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 23:23:39 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Wild Bill Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi All, I received something like 6 - 7 emails from "Wild Bill". He freaked out on me and cursed me out for my slow responses to his stupid questions. On another occasion he chose to offer me his advice on an exchange (that many of you may remember) that I had with Pak Vic. He wanted me to attack Pak Vic and Ray Terry as if either of them had done me a personal wrong and I told him, quite frankly, to "get a life". And on yet another occasion, he emailed me under a different identity (also with the initials BK) and asked me the same exact questions that he asked me previously as "Wild Bill"! I called him on it and he sent me some pretty disturbing replies. This guy is whacked. Period. Best to all, Steve Kohn Torrance, CA --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 23:42:06 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Dead Patterns/John Jacobo Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net John, All patterns are dead until you choose to bring life to them. We are all taught the alphabet and basic grammar, only a few become masters of their language. Some people are happy if they are given a fish, others are hungry enough to learn to fish... -Steve Kohn --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 21:19:37 -0700 (PDT) To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Beginners Training (W. Hock Hochheim) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hey Alex, First, imho, no video takes the place of a real teacher. I've done several home-study courses and they do help if you've got the motivation. But always have a real teacher to help you make corrections. But to your question about Mr Hochheim. He has several excellent courses. It definitely will not hurt to study his: 1. SDMS single-handed and double-handed tactical impact weapon combative system 2. PACIFIC ARCHIPELAGO COMBATIVE He's a real world instructor, if it has any "sporty" techniques in the system he's learning he promptly removes it. Most of his system is aimed at law enforcement officer and military personnel. He's very street wise. On another note you can't rank in his system (certify) unless you test with him at one of his many seminars around the country. And you must goto at least one seminar within every 18 mos. to keep your certification valid. I hope this helps, good luck and train hard Kevin TKD, Kenpo, and Escrima Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes --__--__-- Message: 4 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 15:16:46 GMT From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] (no subject) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Ray Terry wrote: "The above may be the case since the Fall of (I believe) 2000. Cacoy and Diony apparently had a big falling out, very publically, around that time. In the Cebu press and all. Cacoy called out Diony indicating that if he thought he was the head of Doce Pares then he would have to take it from Cacoy. Diony publically appoligized to Cacoy." I don't know where you got your information, Ray,but I was in Cebu when much of this happened, and this is not a fair representation of what happened. Around the time of the WEKAF world championships in Cebu, a press conference was organized involving a number of the local Grandmasters. Manog Cacoy was not invited, and taking offense in this (perhaps appropriately so), he showed up and challenged ALL of the other Grandmasters. (Manog Dinoy was not able to attend due to other commitments, so he wasn't even there.) A local newspaper man named Oyson (sp?) saw an opportunity to make some news. He publicly approached Manog Diony and said that Cacoy had challenged him, and wanted his response. Manog Diony, told him that Manog Cacoy was his uncle, as well as being over 80 years old, so he didn't think that it would be appropriate. It was also a family matter that should be settled privately. In addition, challenges had been outlawed, and Manog Diony (as a lawyer) could be disbarred if he accepted. To this, Oyson responded that he would print that Manog Diony was afraid, obviously attempting to stir the pot. This started a series of statements and counterstatements by both sides in Oyson's daily column. Finally, Manog Diony accepted the challenge and a time and place was set. (This part happened after I left Cebu, so I'll say what I heard happened.) Apparently, both parties showed up, but the mayor of Cebu arrived to intervene and was able to settle the matter, and the challenges were withdrawn. (I have left out some details, which could be seen as "inflamatory", and don't really add much substance to the story.) I must also say, Ray, for a man touting the importance of respect for the Grandmasters, you seem to be showing some disrespect to Manog Diony without understanding the very much about the situation. (IMHO, of course). There is a long history between these two men, some which I know, much more of which I don't. They are both amazing martial artists, with much to offer the community. Manog Diony has a different view of teaching structure, which attempts to recognize the contribution of many of the early DP masters in his curriculum. Manog Cacoy strongly emphasizes corto sparring and eskrido. I have trained with both men and must agree with my friend Don Edwards - if you have only trained with one, you are missing something. To my knowledge, Manog Diony never publicly discusses his problems with Manog Cacoy. What's wrong with both men having an organization to promote their view of a teaching structure? I see no disrespect in that. Respectfully, Steve Wolk --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using MHO WebMail. http://www.mho.net --__--__-- Message: 5 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 15:29:21 +0000 From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Upcoming Dog Brothers Camp Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello Everyone, I am just wondering who on the list is going to the Dog Brothers Training Camp and the Gathering of the Pack the following day? The training camp is featuring a great variety of styles and respective leaders of those arts. As there has been many questions regarding Sayoc Kali, over the last few months from the West Coast. I do know that there will be a contingent of Sayoc Kali practitioners attending the Training Camp as well as fighting at the Gathering the next day! So, it is a perfect time for those on the West Coast to meet and train with Tuhon Sayoc and other Sayoc Kali practitioners. Mr. Terry, I forwarded a FAQ regarding Sayoc Kali to the FMA resource FAQ, a short while ago. Sorry for the delay, but work has been pressing for me to do ...work! All the best Guro Steve-Kayan Dalawa Guro Sayoc Kali- _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx --__--__-- Message: 6 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 17:03:24 +0000 From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Di d anyone attend the Pekiti Tirsia Seminar? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello Everyone, Did anyone attend Grand Tuhon Gaje's seminar up in Montreala few weeks ago? If you did, can you write a little summary of what the training was like? All the best Guro Steve _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx --__--__-- Message: 7 Subject: Re: [Eskrima] (no subject) To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 10:49:02 -0700 (PDT) From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >I don't know where you got your information, Ray,but I was in Cebu when much of >this happened, and this is not a fair representation of what happened. Admitedly I was not there. I am restating, in summary form, the account I received from several that were present. Perhaps they were mistaken, or biased. > I must also say, Ray, for a man touting the importance of respect for the > Grandmasters, you seem to be showing some disrespect to Manog Diony without > understanding the very much about the situation. (IMHO, of course). I understand your comments and accept them. Perhaps I understand the situation very well, perhaps not. Who knows? >To my knowledge, Manog Diony never publicly discusses his problems with Manog >Cacoy. What's wrong with both men having an organization to promote their view >of a teaching structure? I see no disrespect in that. Well, it seems very clear to me. Diony should not be claiming to be the head, the President, the "Dean Instructor", etc etc etc of Doce Pares while Cacoy is still alive and well. Is Cacoy's DP postion then under Diony?!? His nephew and former student? Clearly not. In my view... I'm sure some will choose to disagree. Diony's claim to Doce Pares is that his father, up until his death, was the long time President of Doce Pares. Should that position then rightfully pass to the son or to the last living brother? The one that did all of the fighting for Doce Pares. My views are already clear. Again, all just imo. Politics... Ain't it great? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Cc: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 13:48:33 -0500 Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Internal Aspects of Filipino Martial Arts From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Steve, Thanks. This subject is something that stuck in my mind as something to pursue every since, like I said in my first post, a buddy came back from studying with GM Gaje. I would have guessed that digest members would say that internal stuff could be an adjunct to FMA (like Edgar Sulite studying Tai Chi) than a part of the form. I know your teacher also studied Pekiti. Just curious to know if he saw any connection between the San Miguel form, and Pekiti's 64 attacks form. If you would, reply to me at abreton@juno.com, or to both me and the digest, so I can have your email. I think "Wild Bill" (yes, I get emails from him, too) has made everyone a little wary of posting e-mail addresses. Andy On Thu, 18 Jul 2002 17:08:23 +0000 eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net writes: > RE: "Anyone have any thoughts on interal practices (either > medication or > chi gung) in the FMAs?" > > I've heard it said that Leo Gaje has incredible internal dynamics, > which was > one of the reasons that he has developed such great speed and power. > > Momoy Canete's San Miguel Eskrima is very much in the internal camp > as well, > for the same reason. > > For those who subsribe to the theory, practicing Filipino weapons > forms > opens the Heart meridian, in Chinese medicine, (from the pinkie > finger to > the inner medial arm, to the armpit, to the heart, approximately). > This may > be why banging sticks alot tends to get you a little crazy as > well... > > Two anecdotal, subjective stories re. the above: > > 1. Practicing the San Miguel Form, which takes 8-10 minutes to do > at a > moderate pace, tends to lift the spirit, and circulates Qi and > Blood. As > such, it functions as a Qi Gong form, in a similar manner to Tai Qi > Quan > forms. > > 2. After dislocating my left pinkie finger and having it set, I went > to the > the park later that day to practice the form. I could barely hold > the > dagger in my left hand, but could swing the stick with my right. > After an > hour or two of practice, I left the park, and noticed that I could > now close > my pinkie finger completely around the dagger without any pain. > > Best, > > Steve Lamade > San Miguel Eskrima > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: > http://messenger.msn.com > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 15:52:24 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Cordillera Arnis Federation Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Dear John W. Nakhid Thank you for the information concerning your training sessions at St. Vincent's Gym. This is a big help and I do plan on training there the next time I visit Baguio City. If you would like to exchange contact information I can be reached at CombatCane@aol.com. I currently train in the Lacoste/Innosanto blend of Kali, but am interested in any FMA. Thanks again, Roy Parker --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 14:08:13 -0700 To: From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Visiting the Philippines for FMA & Contacts Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Howdy Gang, Each of my trips to Philippines was highlighted by generous folks who shared with me their knowledge and contacts. In past ED-s (several years ago) I shared about some of my training time with masters & grandmasters. What I forgot to mention (or was being stingy with) was the folks who took me to meet them. Some folks wanted more specific info from me so I'm sharing it with the group. Part of my reason back then was because I thought people would not be respectful or have the right attitude when visiting the masters & practitioners over there. I see things differently now. Many of the last masters (not counting the new up comings) take great pride in their oversea visitors & students. It's also a significant source of income for some. Keep in mind that the average person in the Philippines makes less than $100 a month and this includes folks talked about on the ED. I'm proud of the fact that we have FMA practitioners who continue to go to the Philippines to study and support our instructors there. I would like to see that continue. My last trip I did a little cross training with an Instructor under Paul Vunak from Paloma Italy. I remember that the folks watching us ( we met at a Silat class in Quezon City Circle) were surprised with how much he knew. He's taken a number of seminars from Guro Dan and spoke highly of a seminar with Marc Denny. I was glad we had the conversation because it gave the Filipino students there a greater appreciation of what they already have there in Manila. I know of masters who's whole families depend on stipends from their students abroad. I tend to give $20 (1000 Pesos) for my privates, which is a large sum of money for them and they really appreciate it. To give some context: you can hire a full time live in maid/cook for $50 (2500 Pesos) a month. Then again two 1-hour classes a week of Brazilain Jiu Jitsu cost $30 (1500 Pesos) a month. A yoga class cost $5 (250 Pesos). For those looking for food & lodging you can get full meals for under $3 (150 Pesos) at any mall. And a aid conditioned room at a pension house in Manila will cost you about $20 (1000 Pesos). Tricycles cost from 5 to 50 Pesos. Most jeepneys cost 4 Pesos. A cab from the Quezon Circle to Luneta will cost 150 Pesos. Mind you this is bottom budget for a traveler from the US. You can also pay much more. In Quiapo one can easily find Ernesto Presas' school and it's in the Yellow pages. Also easy find are places for Combat Aikido (A interesting Filipino varient), Yau Yan (there is a school on EDSA near Aurora Blvd), and a visit to Squadron Shop will provide you with many contacts as well. Both the Luneta in Manila & the CIrcle in Quezon City are still places to see martial artist gather in the mornings especially in the mornings. I know that GM Jose Mena & GT Nene Tortal have been with this Indigineous Arts group sponsored by the Dept. of Tourism and do demos at various places in Manila (Malls, Nayong Pilipino, Luneta, etc.) Pekiti Tirsia also has a Manila group, but your time would probably be better spent in Negros with GT Leo Gaje. With that in mind I want to share one of my contacts. Professor Bot Jocano. He's a professor at UP in anthropology and at various times has studied Shaolin Kung Fu, Silat, and Lightning Arnis. He's like a brother to me and we've had many conversasion that remind me of the sharing that goes on here on the ED. He is also friends with many of the other groups in Manila and can help you find folks. He's a busy man with a family and projects- If you plan to use him as a guide I ask that you contact him before you go to the Philippines and pick up a book for his collection. It's not easy for him to get new books on Martial Arts or Anthropology, though he's always interested in new stuff. You could also get him some sparing equipment since he's one of the sponsors for the UP Arnis club (they practice Lightning Arnis) He can be reached at 011-63-2-931-8057. Tell him I sent you and your a friend from the Eskrima Digest. If folks still have more question please email me at elrik@earthlink.net Cheers, Elrik Jundis --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest