Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 03:28:20 -0500 Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #259 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Sender: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Unsubscribe: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<-------- The Inayan/Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list -------->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://InayanEskrima.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Return to Sender (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 2. Upcoming Dog Brothers Camp & PTK Camp (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 3. Manila Pekiti Tirsia (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 4. Better off training in Negros (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 5. The term "eskrima" or "escrima" (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 6. San Miguel Eskrima Form (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 7. Pekiti 64 Attacks and San Miguel Form (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 8. Re: San Miguel Form (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 9. Re: Patterns NOT Dead (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) --__--__-- Message: 1 To: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 00:27:55 -0700 From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Return to Sender Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All: The intermitent thread concerning unwanted e-mails is of no concern of mine, but I would offer for any one using "Outlook Express" who receives unwanted e-mail repeatedly from a given source to consider clicking on "Message" at the top and then "Block Sender". I've been able to put a dent in the Spam bastards doing this-- feels good. Crafty Dog --__--__-- Message: 2 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:33:41 +0000 From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Upcoming Dog Brothers Camp & PTK Camp Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello Gints & O, I am unable to make this years DB camp, as I will be on a planned vacation with my family.(No getting out of this one as my Grandmaster(wife) will beat me!!) I will be at the next years event. To "O" I am based in NH, not CO, but thanks for the update on the Camp. GT Gaje, has helped me immensely over the last few years in my training. Guro Crafty, the "riot" training sounds great! later this fall we will be having similar skirmish, melee battles at our school in NH. Train hard, it is the Way! Guro Steve -Kayan Dalawa guro Sayoc Kali- _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 05:27:22 -0700 To: From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Manila Pekiti Tirsia Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Howdy All, Just wanted to respond to a misunderstanding. I love the Philippines, our people, and our martial arts. If I offended you that was not my intent. > do I detect a hint of a slur here? Any axe to grind > against my teachers and fellows here in Manila, Mr. > Jundis? Did Prof. Bot Jocano have anything to do with > this? > No slur intended. I just wanted to highlight that if one was traveling all the way to the Philippines for the sole purpose of training in the FMA they would probably want to seek out the source of what ever they are looking for. I never talked to Prof. Jocano about Pekiti Tirsia & he's never brought it up. > FYI, my teachers in Pekiti-Tirsia kali here in Metro > Manila are the very first Manila students of Grand > Tuhon Leo Gaje after he came back from the USA and > they train regularly with him whenever he's here in > town. They have very good sparring and fighting > reputations both in the FMA community (as well as a > highly "pedigreed" lineage, so to speak in FMA) as > well as in the amateur NHB and reality-oriented > martial arts community here in Metro Manila (Brazilian > Jujitsu, Sari-an [a local streetfighting style > corresponding to Krav Maga], and Yaw-Yan). I'd take > them anytime over the more publicized ones here in the > metropolis, who are usually more of "packaging" than > real "packing". Next stay in Manila I would like to connect. It sounds like you have a great group. > > My teachers and their (our) fellows are quite > secretive though since they are professionals who > stand to lose their licenses should they get into real > scrapes they could very easily have passed/done > without. Although it wouldn't hurt to seek them out > and to cross-train once in a while with them, should > they deem it okay given their schedules and other > priorities. > > I hope Mr. Jundis didn't mean to say that they were > lousy people or lousy arnisadors. No need to hope, I just did not know about the Manila group. If you notice, I often write with enthusiasm when I am impressed with folks. I like to meet folks first though. Though I have never met GT Gaje, He gets a big thumbs up from me because I have been impressed by Guro Loki Jorgeson who've I had the privledge of meeting and training with. Thanks for letting the rest of the ED know about you guys. You also proved a great point: there is still a lot of great FMA to see and connect with. Lastly, who are you? If you want you can contact me directly at elrik@earthlink.net (I got ride of my old AOL account) Note: I will be gone for the next three weeks vacation. Cheers, Elrik Jundis --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 05:35:39 -0700 To: From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Better off training in Negros Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Howdy PT guy from Manila, I forgot to mention that when I first went to the Philippines earlier this year. I wrote to GT Gaje and asked him about cross training in Pekiti Tirsia. He was the one who told me I was better off training in Negros. I was just repeating what he wrote to me. Sorry that you mistook it as an insult. Cheers, Elrik --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 08:16:50 -0700 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] The term "eskrima" or "escrima" Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello everyone, I know that this is just a small matter but I have often wondered about these terms. As is often told, people say that eskrima came from the spanish word meaning "skirmish". I am a Filipino but I speak Spanish also and I cannot think of a spanish word for skirmish that is close to eskrima. The spanish words for skirmish that comes to mind are "escaramuza" or "refriega". Both of them being far away from eskrima in sound. However, the spanish word "esgrima" (which means fencing) is the spanish word that I have always thought eskrima came from. Thank you. --__--__-- Message: 6 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 16:25:02 +0000 From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] San Miguel Eskrima Form Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Re. "Stephen- I am curious about your version of the San Miguel form. The form is very short, and even doing it very slowly, couldn't take more than a minute, or even less. Has it been enhanced by Mr. Bisio to be more of a Chinese-style form? I have learned two versions of the form here in Cebu- the first from Urbano Borja, who was one of Momoy's stable of fighters in the late 50's and 60's, and the second from the son of Alberto Dacayana, Jhun Dacayana, who is still teaching it on a regular basis here. Alberto Dacayana is the head of the Mig-Sune-Do group here which is based on the San Miguel he learned from Momoy in the 50's. No criticism here, just curiosity" No offense taken. My understanding is that the Momoy was always adding to and tinkering with the form and that different versions existed at different times. The form that I practice is the one that Tom Bisio learned during his visits with Momoy from the late 70's to late '80's. Tom has said that the form changed and became progressively longer during that time. There are a couple of segments that are repeated as "bridges" to other segments at least a dozen times throughout the form. Also - many of the striking patterns are repeated several times within a segment, and most segments are repeated at least twice or even three times with subtle variations. I tell my students that whenever something in the form is repeated several times then the point seems to be to force the student to practice the proper body mechanics (i.e., it's easy to "cheat" the first time but not if you have to do the same motion repetitively)and/or to ingrain an offensive or defensive response into muscle memory). There is an "Original San Miguel Form" within our system that is substantially shorter than the form. I would love to exchange notes with you and see how it compares to what you have learned. You can reach me at: lhommedieu@hotmail.com. Best wishes, Steve Lamade San Miguel Eskrima _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com --__--__-- Message: 7 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:00:48 +0000 From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Pekiti 64 Attacks and San Miguel Form Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sorry for the double post but I have been away for a couple days and am busy catching up on my email. Victor Rivera, of West Palm Beach, Florida, sponsored me for a seminar and was an incredible host and friend. Thanks again, Victor, for your gracious hospitality (and especially for the Paso Fino show in Miami). Re: "I know your teacher also studied Pekiti. Just curious to know if he saw any connection between the San Miguel form, and Pekiti's 64 attacks form." No real similarity, other than that they're both excellent training devices. Pekiti utilizes side-stepping and torque with the waist to facilitate angling and power. It also has other excellent attributes too numerous to mention in detail in this post, e.g., it's use of footwork to outflank the opponent. San Miguel is a much more linear style than Pekiti. The footwork, body mechanics, and angling are different, primarily because of the weapons it uses. The comments above are intended as generalizations, of course. Both can be practiced as internal forms once you understand how power can be transmitted from the ground up, etc. Feel free to contact me at lhommedieu@hotmail.com Best, Steve Lamade San Miguel Eskrima _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx --__--__-- Message: 8 To: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 18:17:02 +0100 From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: San Miguel Form Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Steve, >Stephen- I am curious about your version of the San Miguel form. The form is very short, and even doing it very slowly, couldn't take more than a minute, or even less. Has it been enhanced by Mr. Bisio to be more of a Chinese-style form? < I recently hosted GM Danny Guba for a two day seminar in the NE of England, and he ran through Forms 9-12 (the last being the San Miguel Form). This last Form took over eight minutes to perform at a moderate pace. Whatever you've been shown and was called the San Miguel Form, is not what is taught in the UK! Bill Lowery --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 13:42:05 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Patterns NOT Dead Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Steve wrote> All patterns are dead until you choose to bring life to them. Just how would you define a pattern? Although there are a number of definitions, the most similar one I could find in relation to this discussion is, "the distribution and spread, around a targeted region" Hence, my preference..."the line or angles of attack". That said I could never associate it to being DEAD! I strongly disagree with you. John G. Jacobo BAKBAKAN International --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest