Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 23:12:58 -0500 Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #267 - 4 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Sender: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Unsubscribe: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<-------- The Inayan/Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list -------->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://InayanEskrima.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Escrima? Paete Laguna Full Contact Video? (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 2. Response to Recent Posts; and Invitation (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 3. Cold water therapy (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) 4. Lactate (eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 07:04:10 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Escrima? Paete Laguna Full Contact Video? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello, School that teach iArnis & Eskrima in Manila? Mostly Modern Arnis, Kombatan, Ilsutrisimo, Scientific Lighting Arnis, Arnis Lanada etc. The problem is to look for this groups, the only time you will see them is in Luneta, Nayon Pilipino, Gym in YMCA in Quiapo and College and University. Outside Manila you can fine a lot Maestro of Arnis and Ekrima, in Visaya the Doce Pares, Pikita Tirsia and various system around Cebu. In Laguna There Siete Palo Arnis, Cadena Escrima, Laban Tulisan Eskrima, Arnis de San Miguel, Binakaw Stilo, Labuyo Stilo, Paete Style, Lumban Style, Magdalena Style, Louisisana Style, San Antonio Style etc. etc. In Regarrds of those Member e-mail me regarding Paete Full contact video tape. The 2003 tape I will recieved them by the next week. We need a week to make a copy and then we will let everyone know how to order them. I will post it to my website the Tape and price, Thanks., In Regards of the Term Escrima, is no doubt Spanish term, from the words Esgrima the Fencing arts or the used of swords. I have no doubt French is Escrime is related meaning. In the book of Charlemagne the "DOCE PARES" The competition of this Twelve Peers of France come from different countries, such Italy, Greece, Spain, French, Portugal, Rome, etc. They portrayed the competition or battle of swords (best of the best) in the book I remember written in Spanish "Doce Pares" de Francia the words Esgrima is used refering to the swords techniques. In Dr. Jose P. Rizal autobiography (Filipino National Hero) which by the way is 20 Klm from Paete, Laguna claimed that he is also a Maestro in Esgrima and Arnis de Mano. His brother Paciano P. Rizal is one of the pioneer member of Doce Pares of Laguna. No doubt that Eskrima or Escrima is a Filipino adapted words from Spanish Esgrima not Skirmishes. Arneses is protective armor used to decorated the horse, sometime is refers to the cover of the horse eyes if you see a "Kalesa" horse carriage in the philippines, even in Chicago, Miami and big City that has Horse Carriage ride, the horse has cover in there eyes that one of the Arnesses, the decoration around the body of the horse called in the Philippines Borlas or labor is part of Arnes The Art of Arnes is really refers in the beginning to the decorative trapping around hand of the "Moro-moro" players in play Zarsuelas or Tanghalan. That why they call it Arnes de Mano, later it was adapted frefer to the Filipino fighting arts or the used of hand and weapons. It really the meaning of the Arness is far from the real meaning of it now. Later it become only Arnis, the National Martial Arts of the Philippine. Salamat sa lahat thak you all, Gat Puno Abon "Garimnot" Baet Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research Center USA --__--__-- Message: 2 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net, escrima_arnis@topica.com Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 21:04:55 -0700 From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Response to Recent Posts; and Invitation Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net This e-mail is being sent to both the "Eskrima Digest" moderated by Ray Terry and the "Escrima Arnis" adminstered by Adam Toussaint. Greetings to everyone on both lists. First of all, I'd like to extend my thanks and appreciation to both Ray and Adam, for setting up these forums. The two of them provide a great service in promoting FMA, and bringing FMA practitioners together. The tasks they've assigned themselves is time-consuming; and while it can be rewarding, it can also be at times, thankless. Here's the thankless part (smile): Recently, there has been entirely too much bashing of other martial arts and other martial art practitioners being done behind the safety and anonymity of e-mail. It's true that with the older FMA generation, we tended to have a "Show Me" attitude. "Show me first what you can do. THEN, if I like what I see, I'll show you respect." But we "delivered" this attitude in person, not by e-mail. We were prepared to prove ourselves right or be proven wrong, right then and there. We took responsibility for our actions and our words. With the advent of computers and the internet, this "Show Me" has degenerated to just plain bashing without fear of being called out to back up one's words. Here are some "snippets" posted recently: >>IMHO, Ernesto Presas' books at the National Bookstore are one major factor why younger Filipinos won't take up arnis/kali/escrima, since the way it looks to them from those books, FMA is just "karate with sticks" and doesn't look practical<< To me, this person is not bashing because of the way it is worded. The person is just trying to describe how a particular art (the art I practice!) is perceived. But it is still harmful in that it perpetuates a couple of misconceptions. First, GM Ernesto's art is NOT just "karate with sticks". I can understand why people get this as their first impression; but look again and you'll find an art that is so much more. The second misconception is that the techniques in his books are impractical. This too, is understandable. The opponent's weapon is traveling so fast, how could you possible catch it, much more disarm, lock, and takedown the opponent? But we/you can. Just come to us in a respectful manner and we'll show you. >>... I'd take them anytime over the more publicized ones here in the metropolis, who are usually more of "packaging" than real "packing".<< Well, that's your choice. I too can appreciate the hidden gems out there; but don't begrudge, and don't dismiss the more widely known schools as more "packaging" than real "packing". Yes, there may be some "packaging", but you know as well as I do that these widely known schools could not have survived in our country (the P.I.) for such a long time if their art wasn't good to begin with. Anyway, you're probably not lumping GM Ernesto Presas' school in this category right? Come see us if I'm wrong... >>Arnis has always been considered part of the local schools curriculum here in Manila.<< Always? Perhaps in your lifetime. I went to grade school and college in the PI and that wasn't the case. I wish it was; I would have been doing more than taking judo in Sangley Point. >>The problem is, kids won't touch it with a long pole because to them it's "bamboo fencing with clickety clack clack cadence" that's impractical and useless.<< Good thing you said "to them". >>When they go to the bookstores and see FMA books they see arnis styles that look like "karate with sticks...<< Here we go again... It's thus essential that we show them true traditional arnis/kali/escrima that doesn't follow Japanese martial art models or paradigms. Somethings like Kali Ilustrisimo, Pekiti Tirsia, Lameco, Balintawak escrima, De Campo 1-2-3 Orehinal, and similar styles..<< Although no one directly says it in all the snippets above, most FMA practitioners will know that at least two of these arts being denigrated are the Modern Arnis of Grandmaster Remy Presas and the Modern Arnis de Mano (now called Kombatan) of Grandmaster Ernesto Presas. Instead of looking at the positive ?that it was through the efforts of the Presas family (and others) that Arnis was brought into our school systems and brought back into our national psyche, these people, who should be lauded, are instead put down for introducing an FMA that was not "pure". We need to understand that in the climate of that time (no, not hot and humid) and place, the inclusion of traditional FMA into the school system had as much chance as a snow ball on a Manila sidewalk. So they modified/"modernized" the art in such a way that Arnis could get a toe hold in our school system. If they had to mix in some Japanese martial arts (especially the terminology) to get FMA into our school systems, so be it. No apologies there. A "mixed" martial art is still better than nothing at all. (And for you JKD types, it is better.) Anyway, for you FMA "purists" out there (Elrik's dad just labeled me as such, the other day): since that time, the martial arts of the Presas brothers have evolved (taking separate paths, I would add); and the Japanese components of their art, while already effective, were made even more so ?they were "Filipinized". Isn't that one of the things we Pinoys are known for? Taking something foreign and adapting it to our needs? Take a look at what we did with the U.S. military jeeps left over from the war! (That was WWII to you youngsters.) But enough of that. Let me get to the crux. GM Ernesto's art of Kombatan is NOT "just Japanese karate with sticks". I've looked into and practiced a lot of martial arts in my lifetime (I love them all! Including the Japanese arts!) and I will say this, if you can just get past the derogatory "just karate with sticks" initial image and really get into the study, and practice this art, you will find an FMA system that is SECOND TO NONE (like all other FMA systems, right?). If you do, you might see what I see: a home grown, Filipino Martial Art system that not only preserves our legacy (yes, we practice the classical too); but also adds significantly to that legacy. Too back up what I say, I would like to set up a 5 hour seminar for GM Ernesto in Vallejo, California, August 11th, Sunday, 1-6 pm, that's a little bit different. In addition to training, we will have an "Anything Goes" question and answer session. You can ask ANY question you like, and ask for ANY demonstration in the "How would you..." category, and make ANY comment you want, as long as it's done RESPECTFULLY. (This will be held in my home or another instructor's home, so if you don't obey this simple request, I will RESPECTFULLY toss you out.) I would like to ask a $50 donation from each attendee to cover Grandmaster's travel expenses and compensate him for his time; but if you can't afford it, don't worry about it; donate what you can comfortably afford and come anyway! All attendees will be invited to stay for dinner right after the seminar. We'll come together as an FMA family; and as any family would, we'll have our disagreements; but let's stay family. If you're interested, give me a call or e-mail me. If I get more attendees than the house can accommodate, we'll just proceed from there to the nearest park and have a picnic afterwards. Peace, Alex(ander Bautista Bayot France) Daytime phone: (925) 979-6960 E-mail address: Alex.France@kp.org --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 09:09:44 -0600 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Cold water therapy Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Cold water hydrotherapy. Think of it as a giant ice pack. We used to stand in thr river with our horses after hard rides. It wasn't too pleasant being in the water, but riders and horses seemes to be better for it the next day. I have also read an article in a running magazine expousing this practice. --__--__-- Message: 4 To: "Eskrima digest" Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 16:39:20 -0700 From: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Lactate Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "Had a chat with a sports coach at a wedding reception the other night. His daughter recently witnessed an Australian team jumping in and out of ice baths after competition (Netball). Apparently it was in order to get rid of the lactic build up in the muscles. Recovery rate is very good as a result Anyone heard of this and any medical people able to explain it to me" I have never heard about this technique to increase lactate clearance. I have worked briefly with a Swiss physiotherapist whose main interest was work with endurance athletes and who I believe collaborated on a design of a portable lactate meter. Some of his clients included Martina Hingis and his daughter who was at one stage number 3 in Canada in mountain biking (still is for all I know). He did stress tests and measured lactate accumulation to help the athletes (or the rest of us who could call ourselves athletes only in fits of enthusiasm) to optimize aerobic endurance training. If you are interested in details, the web-site is http://lactate.com/index.html. It has been a while since I visited it and who knows, it may now include cold baths! Mike Koblic, Campbell River, BC --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest