Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 12:36:04 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 9 #280 - 4 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Inayan Eskrima / FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<-------- The Inayan/Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list -------->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). http://InayanEskrima.com/index.cfm See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA list at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. FMA in South Bend, IN (Sidney525@aol.com) 2. Doce Pares & Doce Pares ? (jkolcun@eurotel.cz) 3. Re: Doce Pares & Doce Pares ? (Ray Terry) 4. IKF - Kali Wisdom (al sardinas) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Sidney525@aol.com Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 17:05:07 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] FMA in South Bend, IN Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Is anyone aware of any instructors or clubs for FMA in South Bend, IN, the home of Notre Dame salamat Sid --__--__-- Message: 2 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: jkolcun@eurotel.cz Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 09:06:05 +0200 Subject: [Eskrima] Doce Pares & Doce Pares ? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi there, I'm Jarda from Prague in Czech Republic (yes, this is the city under water right now.... flooding) I'm interested in Doce Pares Escrima and here is one point I do not understand. I found some schools in Europe, some of them looks better, some worse.... according to their web pages :)) I tried to contact some masters from these schools and how I see there is a big infighting between schools of the same fighting style. In enclosure I'm sending you the statement I received a few days ago...just for your information......... >From my point of view it is the same like between Wing Chun and Wing Tsun schools. Both declare that they and only they are authentic Wing Chun (Wing Tsun) organizations and only they teach authentic WCh or WT.) It is dirty to students of both schools. BTW this was the reason why I left WT School. I want to study FMA not to malign other schools... And now...before I even start to study this, I have the same feeling. So, guys explain me please what is going on in Doce Pares schools. As I know, on both sides are masters Caņete, so where is problem ? Are these schools really different? Pls. explain it to me. Thanx Jarda Enclosure: German Eskrima Association POBox 80 01 36 12491 Berlin / Germany phone: +49 30 655 54 07 fax: +49 30 655 53 98 email: dpeskrima@aol.com web: www.eskrima.net Official Statement I hereby declare that these four organizations or associations are not acknowledged by the Authentic Eskrima Association, the German Eskrima Association or the Doce Pares Eskrima Club Berlin: 1. WEKAF, World Eskrima Kali Arnis Federation led by Dionisio Caņete 2. Doce Pares International / Doce Pares Multistyle led by Dionisio Caņete 3. Doce Pares Europe led by Frans Stroeven 4. Doce Pares Deutschland e.V. led by Hubert Mayr Frans Stroeven, Percibal Pableo and Hubert Mayr do not possess instructor credits from the Authentic Eskrima Association in Eskrima and Weapons Arts. Any instructor certifications they issue will not be acknowledged by the AEA, the GEA and the Doce Pares Eskrima Club Berlin. The quality of instruction and training offered by the four organizations mentioned above is far below the minimum standards required by the AEA, the GEA and their affiliated instructors for Eskrima and Weapons Arts. Berlin, August 9, 2002 Uwe Schwarz Doce Pares Eskrima Club Berlin (established 1991) German Eskrima Association / GEA (established 1992) Authentic Eskrima Association / AEA (established 1999) --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Doce Pares & Doce Pares ? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 07:57:51 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > right now.... flooding) I'm interested in Doce Pares Escrima and here is > one point I do not understand. I found some schools in Europe, some of > them looks better, some worse.... according to their web pages :)) > I tried to contact some masters from these schools and how I see there is > a big infighting between schools of the same fighting style. In enclosure > I'm sending you the statement I received a few days ago...just for your > information......... Yes, what they state in your email is a rather sad commentary on how ugly and yet silly politics can become. You may find some background info on this issue in some of the recent issues of the digest. In short, yes it is a problem, but learning via either org is no doubt a fine way to proceed. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "al sardinas" To: Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 12:33:35 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] IKF - Kali Wisdom Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In the October 2002 issue of Inside Kung Fu there are letters written by Jay de Leon entitled "Remy's Void Will Be Filled" and Halford E. Jones entitled "Backing It Up" and an article written by Burt Richardson in his regurlarly featured column, entitled "Kali Wisdom". Jay writes "I mean no disrespect to anyone in particular, but I for one do not need any pretenders, self-anointed inheritors or self-serving successors (be they loyalists or renegades or alphabet soup coalitions), to fill the void left by Remy's death. .......Remy's art will live and flourish forever through the hundreds of thousands of modern arnis practioners ........ from the lowly enthusiast and the frontline "guro" .... to the highly regarded grandmasters. These are the true successors. Halford E. Jones writes ".....it should be mentioned that anyone claiming to be the successor of and the heir to professor Remy Presas and who goes to the Philippines had best be prepared to prove it. Not by documentation, not by anything less than the stick." Two letters showing an understanding of what is true, some good wisdom. A keen insight to Mr. Jones writing is that as long as you are in the US you can BS all you want, go to the Philippines, only your hands will do the talking. Since Burt Richardson (BR) article is lengthy and he make several ponts I will give my comments at the appropriate insertion instead of at the end. BR writes " One of the greatest masters of the Filipino martial arts was Floro Villabrille, who was known as a fighter. This term is thrown around rather loosely today, often describing someone who practices tenaciously". My comment (MC) - says who? This is the first time I ever heard that someone who practices tirelessly is a fighter. What shell have I been hiding under? BR - ".....so called "death matches". To envision one of these matches, picture a no-hold-barred event, like the Ultimate Fighting Championship, but with two modifications. Yes, punches, kicks, elbows and knees are allowed, along with throws, grappling, and joint-locks. The modifications? No gloves and the combatants use heavy sticks with which to strike each other. No protection except your skill." MC - Sorry, I can't picture the UFC type of fight. I picture a swift fight with the highly skilled combatants using their weapons only. When I read this I ask to whom is BR writing this for? A reader with no knowledge of FMA's who will believe this fantasy version of a death match? A WWF enthusiast? Again, I can't picture a modified UFC type of match. If it is really a "death match", why bother to use sticks, use blades and see how effective punches, kicks, elbows, etc. are. BR - " Now if you are looking for someone who has gained wisdom from years of martial arts training, would you prefer to go to someone who has 80 fights or someone who has spent years memorizing forms." MC- If we were to follow this statement to a T, this would practically eliminate every instructor in the United states except one including Dan Inosanto and Mr. Richardson himself. BR - "Villabrille said there are two arts in kali: "entablado" and "matador". Matador is the art of fighting. more literally the art of killing. .....I don't prioritize killing techniques in my personal training or in my teaching. I prefer to focus on combativie methods that work against aggressive skilled attackers.....Entablado is the entertainment art of kali, whose purpose.........is to entertain.. MC- No argument here except that using combative methods instead of killing methods - isn't this some form of "entablado" or entertaining the attacker? BR - "Think about your own training . Are you spending any time practicing fighting. I don't mean techniques, but actual fighting. If you don't spend time fighting, you won't fight well." MC- Finally some real wisdom! BR - "Listen to the wisdom of the masters. There are two arts........If you want to learn how to fight, practice fighting methods that prepare you for battle. If you want to enjoy the beauty of your chosen art, then spend your time perfecting the motions of drills and forms. If you want both be sure to practice both." Finally, my comments are that there is only one art. Without the drills and the forms, the "entablado" , there could be no art, no skill of fighting , no "matador". A champion boxer or stickfighter rarely makes it to the top based on raw talent. It's through the honing process of drills, forms etc. that allows the person to fight skillfully. And usually when one gets real good fighting doesn't one starts to look pretty? Respectfully, Al Sardinas Student of Garimot System of Arnis --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of Eskrima Digest